Bandit problems - not starting

The story so far:

I bought this Bandit as I was at a auction getting a car and saw it and thought may as well get that too as I didn't want to see it sold in pieces as it was in such good nick and needed little to fix it again.

The only damage it had was front end. My guess is it's gone up the arse of a car at no great speed at all.

THE BROKEN BITS:.....................................................................................REPAIR:

Front forks bent just under lower triple tree....................................................Replaced with tubes bought off bikemad (old tubes for sale if you want them PM me an offer)
Headlight broken........................................................................................Replaced with headlight bought off bikemad
Fairing broken but pretty good still................................................................Thinking of going naked or buying one off ebay that is scratched up but not broken
Left disc bent...........................................................................................Fixed myself with shifter, almost perfect now so will keep
Front wheel smashed..................................................................................Replaced with one I bought off bikemad
Triple tree possibly slightly bent...................................................................Did not replace as could flex tubes slightly and get them in please advise if this may have a long
.............................................................................................................term and should be replaced as bikemad has a set
Front tyre shot from rolling broken wheel on it................................................New Pilot 3 bought and fitted from local bikeshop
Broken clutch lever....................................................................................Replaced with new one from local bikeshop
Bar end weight screw bent..........................................................................Need to source one in the next couple of days

Seems to be all the damage. Not a mark on the mirrors or the indicators, slight scuffing on clutch cover which I doubt is related to the accident as there are no other marks on it anywhere.

Now back to my original question I need answered now that you have the lowdown on the damage and cause.

I just read a post headed BANDIT NO GO and it answered a few questions I had which were does the bike have any cutout switches which apparently it does. 1 on the clutch and one on the stand. I will have to try and start it again later as I have had the stand down so it may be just this but I think it is more as I know I did try it with the stand up a couple of times however that was before I charged the battery. Battery did light it all up but when you hit starter it didn't just dim the lights, they went out totally so these bikes must have a big draw on starter. This could be the simple answer now battery is charged - put the stand up and pull in the clutch but just in case it isn't any gurus want to give me their ideas on what to check as I am a mechanical nuffy.

When I turn the ignition on everything lights up as it should but when you hit start there is absolutely nothing. You can hear an electrical pulse down near the injectors that is constant but I am just guessing it is them waiting for some fuel and spark Dunno?

So that's about all I have for you to go on, any help would be greatly appreciated. I am near Maryborough if anyone with mechanical nouse is nearby.

Cheers all,

Rick

Have you tried turning it over without the starter? ie pull the plugs out and push it in gear.
If it turns over like that you might have a stuffed starter motor.
There was also a thread on here where the top timing chain guide fell down and jammed the motor. Maybe in the accident yours was dislodged and has done the same.

you have three kill switches, one normal kill switch, one on the side stand, and one on the clutch. it sounds a bit like the clutch one, pull the wires off kill switch get a small piece of wire bare both ends and poke in the terminals ( short it) then hit the starter it should fire, then remove the wire . also it could be the clutch lever you need to use the adjuster try that first. if the kill switch is dead they cost about $25

i hope that helps

I suggest the problem is almost certainly battery related, here's how I would approach it.

You will need a multimeter set to measure DC volts.

1. Measure battery volts across battery terminals. Observe 12.6 (or thereabouts) with the ignition on.

2. Push starter button and check that battery volts have not dropped below about 11.0 volts

3. If voltage reading is much below this I suggest the battery is stuffed (or not charged).

4. If reading does not drop substantially (above 11.0 volts) there is a wiring issue.

5. Leave the red (+ve) meter lead on the positive battery terminal and move the black (-ve) meter lead to a metallic part of the engine (maybe the starter motor casing)

6. Test again. This will test the negative battery connection. If the meter reading is the same as 4. above we need to delve further.

That should keep you busy for a little while.

Send me a PM if you want my phone number to discuss it further

I'm up for a ride .How about tomorrow .(sunday 17th )

After either checking or getting your battery checked for noload and load health
Check clutch switch. make sure clutch lever is closing switch. Bypass (use paperclip, splitpin, short bit of wire) it to eliminate
Check stand switch. Make sure the plunger moves and switch is being closed when stand is up. As above for eliminating
Check TOS. Is it there, is it orented the right way (up = go, down = nogo), is it working properly. Eliminate it from the circuit but remember to get a new one ASAP if it is at fault as it is important in the scheme of things

Thanks to all the helpers, as suspected it was probably a combination of the battery being a bit flat when I tried to start it with the stand up and trying to start it with the stand down once it was charged or not pulling clutch in. Went out put stand up pulled in clutch and whammo she fired straight up. What a tough sounding little lady it is too. I have a two brothers racing pipe on it, BEEAAAUUUUTTTTIIIIIFFFFFUUUUULLLLLL!

THANKS AGAIN GUYS

Great outcome! And after all your work to bring it back to life I hope you get thousands of rewarding kilometres out on the road. Ride intelligently, don't want a repeat of the original damage

Good result. Bet you feel a lot happier.

Hammy wrote:Good result. Bet you feel a lot happier.

Happier than my grandpa on a Viagra bender

Now all I need is a Fairing and the jobs done. Anyone got one lying around they wish to sell or know where I can get one?

go nude young man

Justmad wrote:

Hammy wrote:Good result. Bet you feel a lot happier.

Happier than my grandpa on a Viagra bender

Now all I need is a Fairing and the jobs done. Anyone got one lying around they wish to sell or know where I can get one?

be careful with a second hand fairing, i noticed that they had some on ebay for about $350 with a dodgy repair and i bet the little tabs at the top would be gone. you can buy a new one for $580 no repair, right colour , and stickers pre fitted.

Jimcoleman wrote:you have three kill switches, one normal kill switch, one on the side stand, and one on the clutch. it sounds a bit like the clutch one, pull the wires off kill switch get a small piece of wire bare both ends and poke in the terminals ( short it) then hit the starter it should fire, then remove the wire . also it could be the clutch lever you need to use the adjuster try that first. if the kill switch is dead they cost about $25

i hope that helps

Don't forgot the tip over switch under the seat.

Kaupy1962 wrote:

Jimcoleman wrote:you have three kill switches, one normal kill switch, one on the side stand, and one on the clutch. it sounds a bit like the clutch one, pull the wires off kill switch get a small piece of wire bare both ends and poke in the terminals ( short it) then hit the starter it should fire, then remove the wire . also it could be the clutch lever you need to use the adjuster try that first. if the kill switch is dead they cost about $25

i hope that helps

** Don't forgot the tip over switch under the seat.

** Where is this exactly and how is it triggered and RESET?

Picture a loose washer on a U . When bike falls over washer moves to the side and
triggers a currant (kill switch ) when bike is picked up ,washer falls to botton of U
connection terminated (it goes )

Lift the seat and look at the frame cross rail that runs between the battery and the ECU. The tipover sensor sits just behind the rearmost part of the battery strap and has 3 wires going to it. On it are the words "Upper" and an arrow showing which way up it goes. Make sure it's not upside down.

If it's faulty, you will get fault code C23 if the bike is in diagnostic mode.

You live and learn - thank you. Gus I have shook that thing but I cannot get the washer to rattle - I will keep shaking.

What Kewwig said

After doing a heap of additional wiring to the big rig I took it out of the garage and across the road for a test.  The bike died and wouldn't start, plenty of battery power for the starter but just a big FI on the dash.  After pushing it back into the garage (we have a steep driveway so that was a saga, I left it for the night to work on it in the morning.  

Next day, kicked over first go ?  Got kitted up to take it for a short test ride, got to the bottom of the driveway and started up the hill and she died again, rolled back to my driveway, couple of rounds of key-kill switch-starter and she came back to life, idled and revved well, in gear up the hill and died, did this for about half a dozen times, and with a lot of well chosen words of encouragement finally got it up the driveway again into the garage.

Rechecked all my wiring, nothing I did could be causing this, seemed like fuel starvation so I was thinking a Gus-sectomy might be needed, but all those who have done this reported poor performance after 3 or 4,000 revs, not no start.  Anyway with the tank raised I checked what the fuel pump was doing and it spurted out a good does of fuel every time the bike was started.  Although it could be a blocked filter, and I have a spare and have bookmarked the thread on what to do, I wasn't convinced this was the problem.

I run a PC-V and I notice the red STATUS led wasn't illuminated when the bike died, watched it when I tried to start the bike and it would come on for a couple of seconds and then switch off.  Some more research, some suggestions were the earth lead of the PC-V, checked this and all nice and tight on the battery negative terminal.  Unplugged the PC-V fuel injector connectors and put the bike back to standard, bike still wouldn't kick over .   The day was over and still no good starting the bike.  



I looked over the simplified FI schematic and was thinking maybe the Fuel Injection relay might be playing up.  Checked where it was, close to where I had wired up the cables for the second battery, so this was starting to sound more likely, maybe the connector had been knocked when I was installing the new battery cables.  Went back to the garage to try and check the connectors, they seemed okay.  I also checked the other relays in this area (had already checked all the fuses the day before), so there was the fan relay and a third "relay" up near the battery.  Tried the bike again, this time it started as if nothing had ever been wrong.  This was not good news as it meant there was an intermittent fault that could fail at anytime.

This third "relay" was the last thing I had checked before the bike came back to life.  Back to the computer to work out what this was.  I had moved this "relay" to make room for the new 120 amp fuse holder that I installed for the dual battery setup.


Original TOS position


Where - and how - I relocated the TOS

What is this relay ?  A bit more on-line searching and I eventually stumbled across this thread, and the fabled TOS (Tip Over Sensor), kills the fuel injection when the bike is layed over in an accident.

If you look closely at the last picture you can see I have this sensor mounted 90° to how it should be.  When down to the bike, kicked over and ran fine, I jiggled the sensor and sure enough she died and wouldn't start properly until the sensor was the right way up.  Checked on the manual, and found there is a DTC error code -C23, and sure enough, checked this out and the code was there when the TOS trips.  The TOS is not in the "start" circuitry, and it sometimes takes a while to trip, hence why I could get the bike to start sometimes, but as son as I added the additional incline of my driveway or the slight hill at the bottom she would kill the bike.

It's now mounted in the same position but the right way "up" and all is good in the world

PS  As for the PC-V, it's STATUS led does come on when the ECU is working and the bike running, but is off when the bike is in this FI error mode.

Bloody modern technology .......................good find . ( that sensor would almost render the kill switch unnecessary wouldn't it ? )

paul wrote:Bloody modern technology .......................good find . ( that sensor would almost render the kill switch unnecessary wouldn't it ? )

I guess its still there for redundancy

paul wrote:Bloody modern technology .......................good find . ( that sensor would almost render the kill switch unnecessary wouldn't it ? )

The kill switch is redundant in my opinion.
I haven't used one since my DT250 days but lets not go there by asking who kills the engine using this switch!

2wheelsagain wrote:

paul wrote:Bloody modern technology .......................good find . ( that sensor would almost render the kill switch unnecessary wouldn't it ? )

The kill switch is redundant in my opinion.
I haven't used one since my DT250 days but lets not go there by asking who kills the engine using this switch!

You might change you mind if the throttle jammed in the wide open position.

Re-Cycled wrote:

2wheelsagain wrote:

paul wrote:Bloody modern technology .......................good find . ( that sensor would almost render the kill switch unnecessary wouldn't it ? )

The kill switch is redundant in my opinion.
I haven't used one since my DT250 days but lets not go there by asking who kills the engine using this switch!

You might change you mind if the throttle jammed in the wide open position.

I never use mine and like 2WA I haven't since I had a dirt bike.
Every time I jump on another bike they kill switch seems to be off and catch me out

Re-Cycled wrote:

2wheelsagain wrote:

paul wrote:Bloody modern technology .......................good find . ( that sensor would almost render the kill switch unnecessary wouldn't it ? )

The kill switch is redundant in my opinion.
I haven't used one since my DT250 days but lets not go there by asking who kills the engine using this switch!

You might change you mind if the throttle jammed in the wide open position.

When was the last time that happened with double cabled systems?