2010-2011 GSX1250FA tuning

I've read all the tuning threads etc and was tempted to dive in as mine has had a slight surge at low revs since new. Low = 3,500rpm. It's got a little worse recently and was considering trying the TPS check as a first step. Thinking about warranty - thought best to keep it all above board and got some advice on a bike shop that had a tech there who (I was told) would be able to sort it. I didn't want to take it to local suzi dealer as I didn't want to be told it was normal etc.
So I paid some coin to no avail. I was told this model is non adjustable either manually or electronically....I'm a little surprised.

Has anyone any experience tuning (de-surging) the 2010 - 2011 GSX FA? Am I destined down the path of a PC-V (or other add-ons)?
I'm guessing the bike is lean anyway and this won't be helping the nerts and gerts it gets at low RPM. It's perfectly ridable - just annoying. Bike's done 5,500km.
Any hints?

Pull the secondaries and do throttle body sync. It should sort it out.

From what I'm reading - pulling the secondaries would probably do it- and a little more 'instant' response would be a nice thing- but it gets back to that warranty issue....

I've had plenty of warranty work done on my F658GS and so am a little sensitive to messing with things that may be hard to reverse. Having said that - I'm not sure if people get many warranty related issues on the 1250s - cept maybe for fuel pumps (which sounds like a filter issue that Gus sussed out)??

Depending on who you speak to , tuning is not a warrenty thing as nothing is broken, but in most cases is in need of fixing.
While I can say that the tweeking you can do as far as a tune up will not void your warranty, it's certainly up to you whether you dive in and do it. As long as you do not break anything like a bolt, nut, wires etc there should be no comeback from the dealer. They wouldn't even know you'd done what you'd done unless you tell them IMO

Pin the dealer plug (or get yourself a dealer switch) as per the "how to" and see if the TPS needs tweeking. If it does, do it. Physically when you look at the TPS, it has not been made to be adjustable, however as shown and experienced by many, there is a small amount of adjustment available and for 99% of peeps, it is enough to get it to a point where it is much better. (I have heard of 1 case where it wasn't but a replacement TPS solved the issue). I will point out that there is another method out in interweb world on how to make the adjustment so the reading is correct. Read all you can on the subject then decide which way you're guna do it and understand what you are doing before leaping in.
Next thing is to do a TB sync. You can't void warrenty doing this IMO as when the shop does a tune up (at your cost) this is what they do (if they do it).
Next thing you can do if you wish is to use the inbuilt tunability of the stock ECU and tweek the fuel a bit here and there. There are a couple of electronic tools you can (or the shop can) use to achieve this but the most commonly known about for suzuki's is the yoshie box. If a suzi dealer doesn't know what that is, walk away IMO. If you can get a hold of this gear and do it yourself, go for it. Without a dyno it takes a bit of time (trial and error) but common sence and a bit of knowhow go a long way.

If you want to go down the road of PC/TFI etc then it could be a warrenty voiding thing if the addition of the box is proven to have caused the failure. I don't believe you need to go down this route unless you want more performance than a good tune up can give. That's a personal thing for you to decide.
If you remove the 2ndaries, then again, if it can be proven that what you did by removing the flyes has caused the failure, your warrenty is most likely kaput.
Not to say you can't PC/TFI or remove the flies, it is up to you and has been proven to give great results on many a bike with few negative results or failures being reported.

Regarding the surging at 3500ish rpm, have a look around on the iterweb as there are several ideas as to what the cause is and several fixes. I know what worked for me and a few other bandits but it's not always the same.

All I can say is I'm glad mine never did it.

Have you talked to your dealer about the problem. I would think that it is a warranty matter, and would not rest until it was fixed.

Hammy wrote:Have you talked to your dealer about the problem. I would think that it is a warranty matter, and would not rest until it was fixed.

I've tried that road, no dice. Several times I asked for the TB's to be synched and every time they didn't bother. Changed mechanics/shop and found the TB's were really way out of synch. It's still surging at 4k and in the mornings it's a cranky SOB but it sure looks good. Next year I'll think more about the more techy fixes when the warranty runs out.

Had the same issue of a flat spot roughly around 3200rpm on my '11 GSX1250FA. Common problem apparantly. Had a chat with local dyno tune mechanic. I wasn't after big top end HP, but wanted to keep / improve the low to mid range torque. He'd done a few Bandits & advised keeping the secondaries, removing the snorkel, small increase in the openning of the airbox, K & N filter, Power Commander V & dyno tune. The results IMO have been well worth the investment. Instant, smooth as silk throttle response throughout the rev range, more grunt, no more pop & crackle from the pipe, & no more flat spot !
It's a gamble as far as voiding your warranty, but the Bandit series are known for their almost bulletproof reliability so I took a punt.
I'm very happy with the results & as long as the dyno tune bloke in your area has a good rep I'd highly recommend it.
Makes an already good all round sports tourer much better !

Cheers,

Mine stopped surging after installing a TRE and tearing out the secondarys

Mine stopped surging after installing a TRE and tearing out the secondarys

Pulling the secondaries is a major engine mod and shouldnt be required to fix a tuning issue.
Given that they dont all do it but all come with secondaries installed it must only be an adjustment thats required.

I have a theory that has made me unpopular in the past but hey whats new?

four40 wrote:in the mornings it's a cranky SOB

Shouldn't be. The bike should fire up and idle smooth as even when cold as ice.
Have any of the mechanics that have tuned your bike done a ISC learned value reset.
If not get one done as it is an important part of the process.
While the ECU can learn over time, it is better to teach it straight away.
You need special equipment to do this (a suzuki dealer should have it) and my understanding is that it cannot be done without it. Not properly anyways.

2wheelsagain wrote:I have a theory that has made me unpopular in the past but hey whats new?

Do share

dhula wrote:

2wheelsagain wrote:I have a theory that has made me unpopular in the past but hey whats new?

Do share

unpopular That is an under statement

Would just syncing the throttle bodies be obvious the first step (without pulling the secondaries)? I hear Four40 but it doesn't sound like he had any much actually getting that job done properly at either CMC or Dahlitz. There is a good thread here somewhere about how to do it yourself - I think it is probably beyond my capabilities (and my bike doesn't exhibit the surging problem) but I'd print the thread and take it to a reputable bike tuner and say: Can you do that? And even ask if you can stay and watch the procedure. After all, there are any number of Bandits out there that don't suffer from this problem and syncing the TBs seems to me to be the most likely cause of the problem. But hey, I'm no expert.

Reardo wrote:

dhula wrote:

2wheelsagain wrote:I have a theory that has made me unpopular in the past but hey whats new?

Do share

unpopular That is an under statement

Just the way I like it mate. Now get back on your steed and try to find some bends

Appreciate the comments and suggestions. There's a couple of things I'll try including an "unpopular theory" as a starter.

The bike has no probs with cold starting and runs fine on the face of it. No popping missing etc it's just the power surge on and off in the low rev environment which is a pita in low speed commute environment once I hit the burbs. Higher speed is excellent and really enjoying the torque in those areas. Is a great mile muncher.

When I did the 700k triangle run the other day (cos the sun was out) I was impressed that the thing could sit on 80 behind a road train (albeit surging - like riding through sand drifts), but then pop the throttle (without dropping to 5th) glanced at the speedo as I passed the RT driver (53 metres from the back of the thing) and we were heading north of 185 (say 170 in real terms). Quite addictive that flat torque curve.

Why haven't I taken it to local suzi dealer (multi franchise)? Cos I'll get fobbed off. They have the monopoly in Darwin, treat customers accordingly (with disdain) and hence we who have been stung before and are in the new bike market, go interstate or elsewhere to buy our bikes. My son bought a new yammy YZ250 and a little later a new Buell XB12R (they are multi franchise). Both times they didn't want to know him after sale. I think ownership has changed since then, but when I was looking for a new bandit - their attitude sent me south.

Anyway once I get success on reducing the nerts I'll let it be known here. I guess I just need to get the ducks in the right order and being my first 4 cyl bike I'm feeling my way.
If all else fails I'll go the dyno path in the new year.

Cheers,
Bill.

Do this and see what the results are.

Hmm, I must be lucky, my FA with (only) 13K still pulls clean from idle. I don't touch it, have a good dealer to service / maintain, in a fortunate position I don't have to knock my lady hands around too much. On another point w respect to primary / seconday b'flies, my understanding is both are there as compromise for best of both worlds power delivery and balance. Primaries allowing for torque low and secondaries kicking in to augment with + power. Been a long while since I mucked around with carbs and stuff and I acknowledge a coupe of SME'S right here... including Chris with his say!

Ewok, if you can walk and talk at the same time then you can sync the TB.

All you need is $80~100 for a guage and you're away. Be careful and look after the mercury type guages, if mercury gets in the donk - game over. I have a shed full of tools because they only cost a fraction of the price someone will charge me to do the whole job - and you have the tools for next time (or beer hire). Works well.

If some other monkey on the planet can do it, why can't I?

I reckon you'd be hard pressed to get the mercury ones anymore. Maybe from a second hand sale.
The easiest I've found for the home tooler is the carbtune ones as there is no liquid at all and they are dam robust for what they are. I've taken mine to a few jobs at others houses and never had a drama.
You can make your own using plans and instructions on the web for cheap as chips if you want also but I find that these are hard to transport around the place (including in the garage), have no real accurate graduations and are really only for getting things even, not to a set vaccum.

Secondaries are only there for fairies that can't handle full power straight away

Pull them out! I resisted but once I did it it was well worth it.

Well I finally got around to checking the TPS this arvo. And it was out (sitting low). Got it adjusted central and went for a decent run. Not much change really. Once I get the gear I'll check the sync. Think I'm being too fussy cos it's very rideable and loves to be let of the leash. At low speeds /revs It really does feel like the secondaries flapping about and I'd probably do the removal surgery if it wasn't under warranty.
Am I imagining a clicking from the right side of the bike when it occurs? Sounds like a solenoid clicking in out but I might be thinking too much about the issue and not thinking about the fun of the ride (as a mate told me).

One thing I noticed when adjusting the TPS (on the GSX1250FA)....there is no adjustment, and the movement to get the dash display to shift must be just microns. I'm having problems seeing how that can make a difference to performance??

rolls wrote:Ewok, if you can walk and talk at the same time then you can sync the TB.

All you need is $80~100 for a guage and you're away. Be careful and look after the mercury type guages, if mercury gets in the donk - game over. I have a shed full of tools because they only cost a fraction of the price someone will charge me to do the whole job - and you have the tools for next time (or beer hire). Works well.

If some other monkey on the planet can do it, why can't I?

Can you build/rebuild a Windows Server 2008 R2 with AD DC Exchange and Sharepoint Server? I'm a trained monkey and I can do it in less than a day. Could I fix my bike when it breaks, not without doing a hell of allot of learning which takes a hell of allot of time. Not too mention if I screw it up it could end up costing me even more to fix it plus the damage I have done. Easier for me to pay a trained professional (mechanic) to do it for me. I'll make the money it costs back in fixing his IT system next time it falls over. Like I say to all of my clients (in my previous life) if you don't know what you are doing DON'T touch it. Call someone who knows.

It is how this modern technologically advanced world works these days... sadly.

But I'll admit, there are some great tutorials out there and if you want to give it a go then by all means, i won't stop you. Just don't look down on those of us that don't.

Note: Not saying you are looking down on us, but felt I needed to have this rant.....

I also had success with my 2007 B1250S after I added a Delkevic pipe and a TRE. It stopped surging straight away. After the Stage II mods it seems like a completely different bike. It now power wheelies my fat 105 kg arse when I crack first and second!