74,000km - Time for some Holeshot Performance - any deliquents demos around the Gong??

G'day all,

I'm keen for more! I love my bike, but I'm sick of rounding up people in the bends at Eastern Creek only to be blitzed on the straight and having to pass them again. I think it's time for some Holeshot performance, but I'm non-mechanical and not quite sure where I need to start and end.

My bike has 74K on it and is far from cosmetically beautiful, so before pouring more cash into I want to be sure.

What I'm hoping for is there is someone in the Wollongong-ish area who has gone down the Holeshot path and can give me a demo. I'm not asking for a ride, but I am hoping for a demonstration of delinquent behaviour! I want to see your bike smoke mine, and therefore know I need the same. Not from looking at a graph or reading some stats, but from seeing the Holeshot bike disappear out of each corner.

Anyone remotely fit that bill??

More generally, do I need the stainless header - is it key to it all? Or does the slip on, EFI supertune and PAIR system removal enough ((Do I even have a PAIR system on an '11 FA?? Like I said, mechanically I'm very slow))

Has anyone got the "New" EFI Supertune pro??

Thanks for any advice!!

Have fun!

Headers make a massive difference, as the stock ones are double walled and restrictive in comparison. 
Slip on helps with gas flow.
Some sort of fuel control to make sure she's not running lean after your exhaust treatment in combination with airbox and secondary butterfly removal. 
You could also try a gearing change.

Ive just done the base stage 2 without the header. Different bike. Much more power up top.

Cheapest mod is 17 tooth  sprocket

The 2011 GSX has PAIR.  Removal has no effect on performance. It will eliminate exhaust popping on deceleration and cleans up the head to give better access for routine servicing.

Thanks for all the replies - so to ask an ignorant question Reddog, a 17 tooth sprocket is a _smaller_? sprocket on the rear wheel for greater top speed but also greater load? There is loads of torque, so does it just feel quicker?? What's the real difference it produces? Say 1st gear for me red lines at about 100km/h. What would it be with 17 teeth?

And then do you need a speedo fix solution?

1 tooth smaller on the front (std is 18/43)

Going 17 tooth on the front will increase acceleration, but decrease top speed.  It'll increase  the revs at 100kph by around  500rpm and decrease your fuel economy.  The smile on your dial will say it all

At the track get some modified dog bones to lift the rear.  5mm on the dog bone gives approximately 30mm lift at the rear which helps the bike turn in better.

FrankenFairing wrote:Thanks for all the replies - so to ask an ignorant question Reddog, a 17 tooth sprocket is a _smaller_? sprocket on the rear wheel for greater top speed but also greater load? There is loads of torque, so does it just feel quicker?? What's the real difference it produces? Say 1st gear for me red lines at about 100km/h. What would it be with 17 teeth?

And then do you need a speedo fix solution?

A 17 tooth front sprocket will gear you down by about 5.5%. So your revs will be about 5.5% higher at any given speed. If you are redlining in 1st at about 100kmph, you'd then be redlining in first (with the 17 tooth sprocket) at about 94.5 kmph. On any other bike, it would probably feel like it would pull stronger at any speed in top gear. The Bandit is odd in that it has a very flat torque curve from about 3750 to about 7500 rpm. I'm only guessing but I'd reckon you'd still notice a bit of extra overtaking oomph at 100kmph in 6th with a 17 tooth sprocket. But the flat torque curve of the Bandit might make that problematic. Key question: do you feel the need to change down a gear to overtake when you are doing 100kmph? I never have and wouldn't change the front sprocket just for that. But the extra pull might be felt further up the rev range, particularly if you've changed inlet and exhaust set ups, eg, modified the airbox, removed the secondaries throttle bodies, changed the can, changed the headers, etc.

Re speedo healers. Yep, the standard 18/43 reads low by about 6 - 7% at 100kmph (ie, you're really only doing about 93 - 94kmph when you think you're doing 100). IMHO that is worth correcting in stock form.  A smaller sprocket would make the error worse, meaning even more correction would need to be added. The Healtech speedo healer is a very simple way of correcting things, whatever the sprocket changes.

Ok, thanks for that, but I don't think that's what I'm after. It's not more low down grunt I'm after, but opening up more power and speed at the top end. A smaller front sprocket and I'd just end up flipping the bike at the lights 

Appreciate the call on the speedo healer, will defo read up on that.

NZspokes wrote:Ive just done the base stage 2 without the header. Different bike. Much more power up top.

Has anyone played on a bike that's had the 'base stage 2' _and_ one that's had the header done as well? Can anyone give insight to the comparative difference?

Also, more fundamentally, when people talk about "Stage 2" is it all in reference to the Holeshot Performance parts??

Sorry if I'm asking age old questions, but I haven't had great luck searching the archives. Might not know enough of the right lingo to do competent searches.

There's a good site for working out gear differences here:  Gearing Commander  

Here's a sample of some of the data it can produce with an 18/43 vs 17/43 at 50 kph (when you're in the program you can adjust the top left yellow box to whatever speed you want to see the rev differences:

I'm sorry but those percentages are incorrect wrt the question asked. 5.88% is correct if the change is relative to 17/43 as the standard and 18/43 as the new ratio. If it is the other way around, which it is in the case of the Bandit, the percentage change is 5.56%. 

Lost me there Dave, the way I've always read these tables is how much difference is the change away from the original.  

So to me if you change from an OEM 18 to a 17 tooth you are now 280 revs more than the original Bandits 4758 rpm (1st gear 50kph), that being 5.88%.  

Maybe I need a better red....

FrankenFairing wrote:Ok, thanks for that, but I don't think that's what I'm after. It's not more low down grunt I'm after, but opening up more power and speed at the top end. A smaller front sprocket and I'd just end up flipping the bike at the lights 

Appreciate the call on the speedo healer, will defo read up on that.

Best off buying a new bike tbh as you need to do so the mods including cams.

barry_mcki wrote:Lost me there Dave, the way I've always read these tables is how much difference is the change away from the original.  

So to me if you change from an OEM 18 to a 17 tooth you are now 280 revs more than the original Bandits 4758 rpm (1st gear 50kph), that being 5.88%.  

Maybe I need a better red....

No, whatever you're drinking will do! Ok, 5.88% increase in revs, but at the same rpm, 5.56% less distance travelled. 

reddog wrote:

FrankenFairing wrote:Ok, thanks for that, but I don't think that's what I'm after. It's not more low down grunt I'm after, but opening up more power and speed at the top end. A smaller front sprocket and I'd just end up flipping the bike at the lights 

Appreciate the call on the speedo healer, will defo read up on that.

Best off buying a new bike tbh as you need to do so the mods including cams.

Sorry can't figure out how to just quote you Reddog rather than also you quoting me...

Anyway, I'm curious by that statement! Nothing I've read of the Holeshot mods talks about having to fiddle with cams?? Again unless I just don't understand what I'm reading.

And by "new bike" do you mean something other than Bandit/FA?? Or just one with less Ks?? As I spouted here I love my bike and haven't seen anything else that I'd consider....

NZspokes wrote:Ive just done the base stage 2 without the header. Different bike. Much more power up top.

Can you elaborate on how the "power up top" plays out?? Does it effectively increase your top speed? I've no real complaints mid range, but to get to the top of 5th or 6th down the straight of a track takes time. So I've only managed about 240 down either Eastern Creek or Phillip Island (admittedly there it was pissing down and had to cross 3 rivers before really twisting on). Does Stage 2 open up this area??

Also did you play with Cams as part of what you've done?? Follow on question from Reddog's post.

FrankenFairing wrote:

NZspokes wrote:Ive just done the base stage 2 without the header. Different bike. Much more power up top.

Can you elaborate on how the "power up top" plays out?? Does it effectively increase your top speed? I've no real complaints mid range, but to get to the top of 5th or 6th down the straight of a track takes time. So I've only managed about 240 down either Eastern Creek or Phillip Island (admittedly there it was pissing down and had to cross 3 rivers before really twisting on). Does Stage 2 open up this area??

Also did you play with Cams as part of what you've done?? Follow on question from Reddog's post.

Im stage 2 slip on from Dale. No cam work at all. Motor not opened at all. The secondry butterflys restrict at the top end as they start to close at high rpm. So yes you will get more to speed for the distance travelled. Over 6k rpm the motor really comes alive and pulls hard. Where as before its starts to drop at 7500rpm. 

Ive done a heap of track but not on this bike. If its all about the track and this is the bike you will be using I would go the headers as well as that gives an even cleaner top end. About 9hp. And a 5kg drop.

Also make sure your position on the bike is good. Get a real good tuck. Your head in the airstream is costs you 20 hp. 

As always handling is better than power on the track, better corner speed means more straight speed.

Also dont focus on top speed. 240 into a turn can get ugly. So if we say 240 is the max you can do then work on how quickly you can get to that speed so you can stay at it for longer. Lap times will drop. 

Remember you have to stop this thing so great brakes are needed. But dont be the guy that brakes at the last second, this is not faster. Smooth is fast. 

Weight is an issue as well. Found this list of things you can pull off.

5.50 - Arrow Downpipes (stainless)
3.45 - Arrow Silencer (alloy)
5.30 - Remove fairing and fit Koso speedo & MX headlamp
3.82 - Remove ABS and fit braided hoses
3.01 - Remove Centre stand
2.52 - Lightweight battery
1.91 - Remove Grab rail, frame balance weights, number plate bracket & tools
1.28 - Remove rear footrests & all footrest weights
1.17 - GSX650F seat
0.90 - Renthal bars (no bar ends) 
0.64 - Renthal rear sprocket

30.54 kg - Total weight loss from a standard 1250 SA 
67.33 lbs 

This probably worth a read:

http://www.bikesales.com.au/editorial/riding-advice/2016/How-to-develop-front-end-feel-57457

Thanks Ewok! Front end feel is something I have thanks to the magic of Terry Hays at Shock Treatment. I love his work so much I want to have a uterus stitched in and have his genius babies! Standard suspension on the FA meant I had to brake waaaaay before the corner so it could finish boating before I tipped in. Now I can trail brake all the way to the apex. I've done Taz and track before and after and the difference is MASSIVE!! The best grand I've ever spent!!

Thanks NZ!! It's not that 240 is the fastest _I_ can go, it's the fastest I can get the _bike_ to go. I did a demo day on a BMW S1000R & RR. On the RR I got to 260 and _chose_ to stop accelerating but that was about half way down the straight. On mine I could be holding more speed through the corner for sure, but it's acceleration at the top just peters away and leaves me wanting. That's where I'm hoping the Holeshot mods give me some more sustained kick. 

Also I appreciate the weight saving options, but my bike is definitely not all about the track. The mods are, but the bike isn't. I'd rather lose 10 kegs around my waist before giving up ABS or my center stand 

I'm still keen for a demo if at all possible, but I think I'm going to go for it anyway - headers and all!! Thanks for all contributions!

With the holeshot stage 2 mods exactly as Dale tells you it will add top speed over your stock bike, don't need to change front or rear sprockets, have done the mods and can tell you even with 19/40 gearing will out accelerate a stock bandit, power really kicks in around 5200rpm and keeps accelerating right up to 260kph before I had to back off for a corner, just contact Dale at holeshot and tell him exactly what you need and he will make a pro for you

Champion, thanks Talon!