Sidecars...calling Barry, come in Barry??

G`day Barry, or anyone else in the know.
I guess your the best one to ask about them, as you`ve got one and live with it.

I guess my main question is:

Why did you convert the front end on your bike, and not leave it standard. 

"Was it because of the total load mass that you carry, and it had to be certified that way?"

As I do a lot of road time between Gladstone and Brisbane, I`m half thinking about a clip on, and when I get there, I want to take it off.  I don`t want to alter the geometry as you have done with the front end, as I want it primarily a two wheel vehicle. 
I have thought about a trailer, but the sidecar thing appeals to me more.

There`s plenty getting around just with frame mods only. So why did you do the front end mod?

Not meaning to derail the thread but I have been meaning to post these photos for Barry's comment.

This machine has been around Australia and across the Simpson Desert and just about anywhere else you can think. 
It looks like it weighs 1500kg including the winch!

Photos taken at Dargo Vic last weekend.

ha ha ha...now that's a chariot!!!

well it did the trick I guess.

http://www.srkengineering.com.au/sidecars/sidecar-leading-link.html


I asked Barry about taking the side car off, apparently its a lot of work and the bike would handle like a pig. Barry runs a car tyre on the rear and a rear bike tyre on the front mounted backwards.

A trailer is the best option for you IMO

madmax wrote:http://www.srkengineering.com.au/sidecars/sidecar-leading-link.html


I asked Barry about taking the side car off, apparently its a lot of work and the bike would handle like a pig. Barry runs a car tyre on the rear and a rear bike tyre on the front mounted backwards.

A trailer is the best option for you IMO

Cheers mate.

Fair call.
I`ve actually got a mount for a trailer, that I got from an ex Bandit member, so I guess that's the plan of attack.

wheelsagain wrote:Not meaning to derail the thread but I have been meaning to post these photos for Barry's comment.

This machine has been around Australia and across the Simpson Desert and just about anywhere else you can think. 
It looks like it weighs 1500kg including the winch!

Photos taken at Dargo Vic last weekend.

I looked at the photo and couldn't see the WENCH who I expect would have been in the sidecar.

Then I spotted the WINCH and all was well (maybe time for a little lie down)



MtB, if you still wish to look at the sidecar option, I know someone in Howard, Qld who I understand has a sidecar for sale. Let me know if you are interested and I will get some info for you.

BanditDave wrote:
MtB, if you still wish to look at the sidecar option, I know someone in Howard, Qld who I understand has a sidecar for sale. Let me know if you are interested and I will get some info for you.

 Thanks Dave,

I`ve been having a good hard think about it, of the whys and where`s, and I wouldn`t ever change the steering or geometry to put a sidecar on, and I can now understand why steering is changed, and I can understand the forces that would be inflicted upon the forks, and tyre wear as a result of turning the handle bars, while the bike stays upright. There not designed to do that. A bike naturally leans, along with counter steer, so it wouldn`t be an efficient way to put a sidecar on.
 Thanks anyway.

BanditDave wrote:

wheelsagain wrote:Not meaning to derail the thread but I have been meaning to post these photos for Barry's comment.

This machine has been around Australia and across the Simpson Desert and just about anywhere else you can think. 
It looks like it weighs 1500kg including the winch!

I looked at the photo and couldn't see the WENCH who I expect would have been in the sidecar.

Then I spotted the WINCH and all was well (maybe time for a little lie down)

A WENCH did disembark from the vehicle.

The main purpose of the Leading Link (LL) modification to the front end is help with steering now the bike has additional drag forces on the left side, by moving the front wheel about 100mm further forward it lightens the steering effort.  My setup also has a steering damper to help with head chatter and smooth out the ride.  The LL really isn't for total load mass, more to assist due to the changes, not every sidecar has it nor needs one.  Nor is it a rego requirement, but if a LL is fitted, it must have its own engineering certification, over and above the actual sidecar mod.

There is a fair bit of geometry that goes into setting up the sidecar, as well as mechanical changes to help the complete rig perform at its optimum.  Just unbolting would render (in my case) a pretty dreadful handling two-wheeler, and then the effort of getting the rig setup correctly again is not an easy task.  For example just prior to the Parkes run I changed the setup on mine, when SRK first made it they configured it for "easy" riding, that is they lessened the effect of centrifugal forces for left hand corners (when the sidecar wants to be thrown out of the corner and tries to lift the wheel).  However this "easy" mode has a detrimental affect on straight ahead riding as it required a fair bit of effort to stop the bike wanting to steer left all the time.  So I changed the bike lean angle from 3° towards the sidecar to 2° away, and also corrected the toe-in (how much the nose of the sidecar is angled towards the front wheel of the bike.  These changes took quite a few hours of setting up, changing, test riding, and rinse -n-repeat.

To me, you either have a good two-wheel bike or a good sidecar setup, expecting the one bike to do both with simple "clip-on" attachments isn't going to be too successful, especially if you are looking at long distances.  I'd be looking at one of the trailer options if you want to keep the bike "standard", there's some pretty smart ideas getting around these days, I especially like the little 1-wheel jobbies.

But if you're really hard core you can still have your cake and eat it (as long as you only have to turn right);

Thanks Barry.

After I posted this topic, I sat down and had a good think about the geometry between the two set ups, and how they really work. What you stated is basically how I saw things, but not to the full degree of toe in or out, to get the desired affect. I think the best solution, along with what madmax also said, that the trailer would be the be the go.

I wont be doing this straight away, but will build it myself.

Thanks for your knowledge and input.

mtbeerwah wrote:ha ha ha...now that's a chariot!!!

well it did the trick I guess.

That's not a chariot ---

This is a chariot :

Did you catch the next one.....



He wasn't really controlling the bike by those strings was he ?

#Tag wrote:

mtbeerwah wrote:ha ha ha...now that's a chariot!!!

well it did the trick I guess.

That's not a chariot ---

This is a chariot :

Look out Ben Hur...but the question is, Did it cross the desert?

barry_mcki wrote:Did you catch the next one.....



He wasn't really controlling the bike by those strings was he ?

aaahhhmmm.....surely not....got to be some sort of foot control, hey?

I suspect there was a rider with an "invisibility cloak".

I saw one in a Harry Potter movie so they must be true!

There is another option, there's a sidecar sub-culture called Leaners.  You don't see them very often, in fact I've never seen one in the flesh, but the principle is to have pivot points on the bike frame instead of hard mounts, besides that the bike itself remains relatively unchanged and still handles pretty much as normal, i.e. counter steering for turns etc.  There are limits to how far you can actually lean the bike but it would still give a spirited ride through the twisties.



There is also versions that have links to get the sidecar frame and wheel to lean as well, though the engineering would be mind-blowing, some food for thought....

Now they look like fun. 

Bosco15 wrote:Now they look like fun. 

They look bloody scary to me

Chook wrote:

Bosco15 wrote:Now they look like fun. 

They look bloody scary to me

Only for the passenger

I don`t mind that idea!!

Although, I`d want the mount higher, so you don`t flog it on everything, as I see that will happen with full suspension travel.