Secondaries removal views ?

'Crimsondawn' has been told by an ATRE seller that with installing their unit there is no need to remove the secondaries. What expeiences has anyone had with theirs ? My removal was nothing but GREAT !

Well you might not NEED to remove them but i bet is BETTER to remove them .

gus wrote:Well you might not NEED to remove them but i bet is BETTER to remove them .

Sung to the tune of an old Johnny Cash number. " How highs the water Gus " ?

Hammy wrote:'Crimsondawn' has been told by an ATRE seller that with installing their unit there is no need to remove the secondaries. What expeiences has anyone had with theirs ? My removal was nothing but GREAT !

As part of the Dale Walker Stage II setup: fantastic.

With no other mods, a bit faster throttle response. I have done a few now and everyone loves the results. In fact, try and find anyone, anywhere in the world, who has regretted it

kewwig wrote:

Hammy wrote:'Crimsondawn' has been told by an ATRE seller that with installing their unit there is no need to remove the secondaries. What expeiences has anyone had with theirs ? My removal was nothing but GREAT !

As part of the Dale Walker Stage II setup: fantastic.

With no other mods, a bit faster throttle response. I have done a few now and everyone loves the results. In fact, try and find anyone, anywhere in the world, who has regretted it

There is someone on this forum who put theirs back in

OK, one person in the world then!

And he's is from N.Z so that doesnt count .

I can't see how a ATRE stops secondaries chocking anything. Some salesman will say anything to get a sale!

secondaries

No secondaries

Piss of the secondaries. Then the computer can't tell you how much throttle you can have. Before removing them I can't remember power wheelying the bike. These days I get a big grin happenening when the front wheel goes skyward Then it hits the limiter and comes back down

Healtech say that their GIPro allows quicker opening of the secondaries in the 6th gear map. It's not the same as removing them as it doen't affect the secondaries partly closing at high revs.

All the ATRE can do is to fool the ECU into thinking the bike is in whatever gear the ATRE is set to. So, what he salesman appears to be saying is these engines are effectively restricted by the ECU using the secondaries to determine how much it will give you in the restricted gears (1 - 4). The side benefit of the ATRE is that, unless you are prepared to pay heaps to have your powercommander (or similar) mapped in each gear (if the unit has that ability); then you can use it to fool the ECU into thinking it is in one gear (5 th in my case) and only have to build one map. BTW when the fuse powering the ATRE blew, my idle was really rough. I believe this is because when neutral is selected the ATRE tells the ECU to use the neutral map with the nice smooth idle. With the ATRE unpowered there is effectively no output from the gear position sensor so ECU defaults to the 6th gear map for all gears and neutral, (think its 6th).

As far as I am aware the primary advantage of secondary removal is throttle response, don't think it makes that much difference in peak output.

It was meeeeeeee!!!!

No difference on my bike with or without.

Kaupy1962 wrote:It was meeeeeeee!!!!

No difference on my bike with or without.

But had you done the airbox mod as well ? I think you need all the pieces of the puzzle to make it work. Like putting a can on your std headers. It will sound good, but to get the real benefits you need to replace the std headrs as well. Better flow. Less restriction. JMO.

Hammy wrote:you need all the pieces of the puzzle to make it work..

+1

Hammy wrote:

Kaupy1962 wrote:It was meeeeeeee!!!!

No difference on my bike with or without.

But had you done the airbox mod as well ? I think you need all the pieces of the puzzle to make it work. Like putting a can on your std headers. It will sound good, but to get the real benefits you need to replace the std headrs as well. Better flow. Less restriction. JMO.

Snorkel has been taken out

crimsondawn wrote:Does removing the secondaries cause fueling to lean out?

Not that I could tell. If done carefully, the procedure can be reversed if your not happy. 99% are more than happy.

I think the issue is more than just whether it will run lean afterwards. I am not a mechanic and have picked up most of my knowledge by following what others have done, but to me if you are removing the secondaries for anything but performance you might want to rethink your approach. IMO you would not be getting the optimum performance if you didn't add the PC-V(or III) or the Dale Walker (Dobeck) TFI and their associated tune-up settings.

As mentioned by a couple on here previously, the secondary removal is part of an "upgrade package" that usually includes the headers, can, airbox lid and ECU tuner box. With the Dale Walker TFI setups there is a tried and proven tuneup configuration that seem to produce pretty good numbers (I think Dale Walker has put his Bandit over 200 dyno runs to get this nutted out). A number of us that went the PC-V route also forked out for a dyno-tune to get the maximum out of the Bandit over the full rev and gear range.

Why don't you try to catch up with one of us that has done the removal and compare the difference, 130 rwhp puts the Bandit into a different arena, also causes your face to ache due to the big grin on your dial

Just do it.. you will not regret it.

If you are a bit worried about it as stated get one of the members here that have done it give you a hand. It's a couple of hours tops

Just follow Reardo's write up. Don't remove the throttle bodies from the bike and the throttle cables as they are an absolute bitch to get back on. You need a set of JIS drivers or you'll be drilling the broken screw out. I had to do it to one of mine prior to buying the proper screw drivers from the states.

The need for the JIS screwdrivers is a bit of an urban myth. The main trick in getting the screws out is to break the locktite. This is what I used:



These came from the local Jaycar store, the screw driver set is TD-2026 ($19.95), and the pencil torch is TS-1667 ($11.95).

I did eventually get a set of JIS screwdrivers from the US, they arrived about 2 weeks after I had taken the secondaries out.

BTW, this is what happens if you use too small a screwdriver and apply the heat to it instead of the screw:



Edit...

And this is a photo of a JIS (on the left) compared to the Jaycar equilivant:

Pity you didn't see this thread earlier as well, makes it a little easier to put back together....Airbox & Secondaries

crimsondawn wrote:

reddog wrote:Just follow Reardo's write up. Don't remove the throttle bodies from the bike and the throttle cables as they are an absolute bitch to get back on. You need a set of JIS drivers or you'll be drilling the broken screw out. I had to do it to one of mine prior to buying the proper screw drivers from the states.

Too late. Throttle bodies are out, cables are off, taking to work tomorrow .

I eagerly await your verdict. Please consider upgrading your air filter to a high flow type, and opening up the airbox lid.

You will see a hose that runs up under the r/h side of the tank. Has a joiner about half way up. Just pull apart. Block up and push back together.

crimsondawn wrote:That the one that goes into the airbox? About as thick as your little finger.

Yip.

Would not mod the lid w/out adding a fuel controller. This is the mod that lets a 'lot' more air through.