Another Power Commander question

I've had my bike back from the Suzuki mechanics now for a few weeks after the replacement of the fuel pump/filter, rebalancing of the throttle bodies, sorting out the TPS and synchronizing the butterflys... (don't ask why.. )

So now the thing goes like a rocket however down low and especially noticeable in heavy traffic, its quite lumpy and tends to 'hunt'. Been back to the Suzuki shop a few times and they've adjusted the mixture with their 'Yoshi' box - maybe its a little better but not as 'smoooooth' as I think it was before all the drama.. Today they said it's about as good as they can get it without installing a Commander unit..

Back home and rang a nearly local bike mechanic and told him the story. He asked how many k's was on it (41000) and said that at that age a Power Commander would be the solution.. He suggested buying one off the net and then he'd install and 'map' it for a further $400.

So my questions are; What's the consensus?? Is it worthwhile? Is a PC going to be able to correct the rough running down low?

Also, which model PC should you get? (there appears to be quite a few on the market) and to get the best deal, Where from?

The comment about the PC being the solution because the bike is 41000kms old had me laughing. What a load of crap IMHO.
The hunt your feeling could be due to any number of reasons that start at the front of the bike and end at the back of the bike. It could be one thing or a number of things adding up to cause it. It could even be in your mind (no offense intended).
IMO adding a PC to "fix" a problem is not the way to go as the problem will still exist just be masked.
Having said that, adding a PC may "solve" the problem your having and is certainly quicker than doing it the old fashioned way of finding and sorting it out properly.
My $0.02

Not 100% familiar with the Yoshi box, but I am guessing that it is a rebranded Dobek TFI. If that is the case, then it has a couple of limitations, primarily its inability to remove fuel from the base map. However, plenty of bikes have been made to run properly with these things up to stage 2 with headers.

Questions:
1. Do you have the 02 bypass fitted?
2. Do you have a GI Pro fitted?

Cheers

If you haven't already get rid of the secondary butterflies and make sure your TPS is spot on. Chain tension can also make the bike feel a bit odd if it's on the loose side

Dekenai wrote:Not 100% familiar with the Yoshi box, but I am guessing that it is a rebranded Dobek TFI. If that is the case, then it has a couple of limitations, primarily its inability to remove fuel from the base map. However, plenty of bikes have been made to run properly with these things up to stage 2 with headers.

Questions:
1. Do you have the 02 bypass fitted?
2. Do you have a GI Pro fitted?

Cheers

Ummmn.. lets see... Q.1. Not sure if this is the answer to the question you asked but; I've an aftermarket pipe on it (Danmoto Carbon GP) and have disconnected the O2 link and installed a 'chip'. (is that what you meant?)

Q.2. I don't know what a GI Pro is but pretty sure it's not fitted.. (I've had the bike nearly since new and nothing had been done to it when I took over its custody)

Thanks for your thoughts..

It's not a chip. It's actually a small resistor. It is installed under the left side-cover. I think we need to establish what exactly what you have. Can you post a picture of the 'chip' installed?

OK - it was called a 'chip' but yes I believe it's actually a resistor - it's all inside a moulded plastic connector so a little hard t take a photo of - the resistor itself is covered in shrink wrap tubing inside the plastic connector.. I don't know what value the resistor is without pulling the thing apart and removing all the shrink wrap..

What mods do you have? Can you remove the Yoshi box and see if that sorts it? Is there another nearby Bandit owner with a known good O2 bypass that you could swap with? Dumb question, but was the bike running OK before you fitted the Yoshi box?

Guys, a Yosh box is not a TFI/Power Commander. It is a plug in tuning device used by Suzuki dealers and tuners to re-program the stock ECU. It's unplugged afterwards.

It's hard to diagnose remotely as we don't know what the dealer has done to the ECU.

"Hunting" generally occurs because the throttle bodies aren't synced properly (each TB is flowing at a different rate), or the Air/Fuel ratio isn't optimal. An aftermarket pipe and filter can add to the lean running woes, although generally the ECU compensates. Some report success with an otherwise stock setup and a resistor bypassing the O2 sensor, but my own experience is that it doesn't make any difference my bum dyno could feel. The GSF1250 and GSX1250FA are renowned for low speed running issues, but it's not every bike (but my K8 used to do it)

Dale Walker (www.holeshot.com) sells the Dobeck TFI, and with his stage 1 and stage 2 settings, most of us who have done it have got much smoother running and a lot more power. The stock motor can be tuned really well to run smoothly. Secondary butterfly removal on an otherwise stock engine can help too BUT there's a lot of potential causes.

There's a few different ways to sync the TBs. One uses the Suzuki SDS software along with vacuum gauges, and most of us don't have access to that. The other uses a vacuum gauge and setting the bike into dealer mode with a switch (or bypass if you know what you are doing), and syncing with gauges. The last uses vacuum on the ISC switch, and there's a "new" way doing the rounds where the no. 4 vacuum line to the gauges (eg Morgan CarbTune) is cut, a "T" put in and that is used to pull vacuum in the ISC. I found doing that I have got the best sync and smoothest running, without disconnecting the ISC or putting the bike in dealer mode.

In other words, patience, a good set of vacuum gauges (I recommend Morgan carbtune), and you can achieve a lot.

Try removing the O2 bypass plug and reconnect the stock O2 sensor connector.

A GiPro won't make a lot of difference either way (the gear position indicator is handy though).

The best bet is doing some internet research, finding someone with a similar bike, and don't try and muck around with settings unless you have advice.

A PC and dyno tune should sort it, but my preference is Dale Walker's plug and play setup, and I have set this up on 3 GSF1250s now (2 X Stage 2, and one Stage 3 with headers) with complete success.

If you don't want to spend much, buy some gauges and check out the sticky on tuning the bike

And the above is exactly what a shop should be able to do without saying "they're all like that" because they're frigging well not.

Good response mate.

Thanks for all the good advice guys... I unfortunately haven't access to all those wonderful testing instruments and gauges though..

This all started when I fiddled with the TB balance (as mentioned in another post).. I had problems with the bike having a 'dead' spot when accelerating after doing that and also touching the TPS (I have the plug to put it in dealer mode)...

A car mechanic nearby has a Bandit and had a workshop manual on his computer.. I did some of the 'balancing' at his workshop and he suggested moving a screw in between the throttle bodies.. WRONG! As soon as I moved it he said "hang on - the manual says NEVER to touch that screw!" Not happy Jan!

So long and short of it was that I bit the bullet and took it to a Suzuki dealer who I thought would have all the required gear to set it right.. ended up having a new fuel pump fitted as they told me the old one was only putting out about half of the PSI it should have been.. then they removed the throttle bodies and supposedly synchronised the butterflys (the screw I moved put them out of adjustment).

When I got the bike back I found it went like a rocket under acceleration but has the 'hunting' issue down low, especially noticeable in traffic or if you're downshifting into a corner... not the best feeling there. so been back and forth to the Suzuki dealer and that's when it's had the mixture adjustment done with the Yoshi box.. but no real joy yet. I've noticed that my fuel consumption is up by about 10% but I guess if it's going like a blur when its up and running then it could be getting more fuel pumped into it? Also noticed when I picked it up from Suzuki that my pipes and muffler were quite discoloured compared to what they were when I took it in - appeared that it had been running very hot but doesn't smell hot or feel that way when I've been on it since then.. so anyhow, after all that I was pissed off with Suzuki and decided to look at other bike mechanics in the area..

Got it booked in tomorrow with Mick Dyer at Penrith (heard good reports of his work) who has told me that if he can't fix it he won't charge me.. (he rode it and agreed that the hunting was present - I had been thinking for a while that I had been imagining it) so the saga continues... I'll report back with news..

Disconnect the GPS and see if it still hunts.
If it doesn't good chance the GPS is full of oil or faulty.
If it still does hunt you've lost nothing but about 5 mins of your time (plus the ride)

dhula wrote:Disconnect the GPS and see if it still hunts.
If it doesn't good chance the GPS is full of oil or faulty.
If it still does hunt you've lost nothing but about 5 mins of your time (plus the ride)

Thanks Dhula.. I'm guessing you mean the 'gear position sensor' ? As I'll be looking for it in the morning early (nearly dark) can you give me a hint where it is?

Well there's some good news..

Up early this morning to be on the road at 7am so I could get the bike down to the mechanics in Penrith by 8am... -1 deg when I left but on the weather web site it said it felt like -6.5 degs with the wind chill! Rugged up like the Michelin man I mounted the bike, heated grips up to 2nd highest level and dodging the snow falling off cars and trucks travelling along the highway... brrrr!

So left the bike at "Mick Dyers" motorcycle repairs at Penrith.. went for a walk to Maccas and hung around there for about 2.5 hours. The guy I'd spoken to two days ago at the mechanics said that the rate was $110 per hour at a minimum of 2 hours.... plus parts.... so I was prepared to pay over $220 or thereabouts.. - had to have cash as well as they don't accept cards, cheques etc.

Decided to walk back before the phone call to pick the bike up and just as I arrived in the driveway the phone rang... It was Mick who was telling me the bike was all done and ready for me to test ride.. he told me that he'd done all the TB's again using an electronic balancer and found that one of the throttles was 'out'... also re-adjusted the TPS, put a o2 probe up the arse to check the gas (the bikes - not mine ) and re-tuned the mixture with a Yosh box. Anyhow, rode the bike for about 10ks and it certainly seemed alot better - only a small amount of surging but I'm now thinking that it was probably always doing it a little bit..

So back to the shop and went to pay for the work... Mick said 'No - don't worry about it' - I was surprised as I expected to be outlaying at least the $220 mentioned when I booked it in.. He said that as he didn't have to supply any parts etc and only a little time he was happy to do it FOC... The only thing he asked was that I take it back there for the odd service and when I wanted some new tyres.. I'll be happy to. It's not often these days to get good customer service and he obviously does this to promote loyalty from his customers... He's certainly won me and I won't be going back to Suzuki for any work in the future!

Rode the bike the 70ks home and what a pleasure to ride again... very happy...!

Now that's service!

great service, great result.

bhoffo wrote:only a small amount of surging

may be caused by the GPS on it's way out as I mentioned.

Bhoffo wrote:can you give me a hint where it is

It's on the side of the gearbox but all you need to do to check it is disconnect the plug. You will find this under the LH plastic side cover (the one just under the seat) where you will find 3 plugs. The one you are looking for is the triangular shaped 3 pin plug that has a PINK wire (it also has a black and blue wire from memory).
Disconnect the plug and go for a ride

WARNING: by disconnecting this plug you will look everything that the GPS does such as neutral light (and everything that comes with it) and gear indicator (if fitted).
I did a post about it somewhere on here with more info but can't seam to find it right now.

Restores your faith in human nature doesn't it // & a good result for you

I have always said you cant under estimate the value of a "good shop".
A great result for you and the shop will be miles in front from the good publicity.

We have 2.5 bike shops here and on Tue I'm going to the "good shop" and buying 5 dirt bike helmets for us quad bike riders at work.
Sure its gvt money and I could go anywhere but why shouldn't I go to the shop that has helped me beyond what I required in the past?

Good operators are still out there thankfully.

dhula wrote:great service, great result.

bhoffo wrote:only a small amount of surging

may be caused by the GPS on it's way out as I mentioned.

Bhoffo wrote:can you give me a hint where it is

It's on the side of the gearbox but all you need to do to check it is disconnect the plug. You will find this under the LH plastic side cover (the one just under the seat) where you will find 3 plugs. The one you are looking for is the triangular shaped 3 pin plug that has a PINK wire (it also has a black and blue wire from memory).
Disconnect the plug and go for a ride

WARNING: by disconnecting this plug you will look everything that the GPS does such as neutral light (and everything that comes with it) and gear indicator (if fitted).
I did a post about it somewhere on here with more info but can't seam to find it right now.

Thank Dhula.. I actually did a Google search last night on 'gear position sensor' for Bandit 1250 and found your previous post! I might have a go at doing what you suggest next week.

Re the Customer Service - it's just Good business; if only other businesses realised the benefit they could get by operating similarly.

An unexpected birthday present for you.

Ewok1958 wrote:An unexpected birthday present for you.

Almost the only one I've got so far!!

Hi Lads,

One other thing I have noticed with the white pig of mine is that it seems a little "clunky" on 91octane fuel. In first noticing it I thought it might have had stale fuel as it had been sitting a while before running it. So made sure to re-fill with 98octane and a small percentage of injector cleaner...all good. Tried the experiment two tanks ago with running 91octane and sure enough the notchy fuelling/worn cush-drive rubbers/slack chain feeling came back. Filled up with 98octane care of Caltex's Vortex and smooth Bandit.

Maybe the North Queensland fuel is dodgy. Something to keep in mind.

Regards,
nathan

Good to hear all is well with the bike again Bhoffo

That's good to hear. My experience, based on owning a brand new 2010 GSX1250FA and a 2007 1250S, is that they both surged at moderate, fixed throttle settings. After fitting a TFI to both, and doing the airbox mods, they both ran like clockwork. Before I fit the TFI and did the Stage 2 mods on my 1250S, I put on a Delkevic can and a TRE. I can say that with both of these the bike felt a lot better and didn't seem to surge as much. I'm not sure why the surging improved, but for under $320, the bike felt a lot better with about an extra 5-10 hp. I know several of the guys here will disagree, but I don't think you need a Power Commander. Save yourself a few hundred bucks and buy the TFI off Dale Walker at holeshot.com and he'll give you his settings for both Stage 1 (TFI, 1.5 inch hole in airbox with snorkel removal, and K&N filter) and Stage 2 (TFI,remove airbox lid, K&N, remove secondary butterfly valves). I ran Stage 1 on my GSX1250FA with the standard can and it was a bloody ripper. I have Stage 2 on my 1250S with a TRE and the bike pretty well hammers. I've smoked R1's and Gixxers off the lights no problem. Thanks to Reardo and his fabulous Youtube video, I just ordered an Arrow header set from Solomoparts.com.
Also, ohmy is right about the fuel. If you're using 91, give it up. I use 95 and then 98 every other fill. 91 is crap, unless you're driving miss Daisy.

My IMO, PC is better because of it's ability to remove fuel.
My Tuner got me a 10hp jump in mid range RPM with up to -15% fuel from Suzuki's map.
I don't think the TFI can do that? Which means (To me) it's a compromise.