MC Trader Mag Dyno Tuning

An interesting read here and it raises some good points.
Click Here

I alway thought the popping was something that was there all the time and that the super-sized OEM muffler quieten it down to a level that was not noticable.  

The PAIRS system puts more fresh air into the exhaust to "trick" the government enviromental meters into thinking their readings have less hydrocarbons, i.e. artificially diluting the mixture reading.  However this abundance of fresh air now sets up a condition whereby the mixture can now ignite easier in the exhaust pipes and hence the popping.  With a free flowing aftermarket can installed this popping is now more audiable.  So the simple trick is to remove the PAIRS.

The other point about the OEM exhaust sensor is also well explained.  The OEM unit is a narrow band sensor, so when changing from factory conditions (cans, inlet filters, fuel computers, etc.) this sensor needs to be disconnected.  But just removing it is not advisable as it can upset the ECM into messing up the mixture and/or setting off the FI light.  A resistor is usually installed to simulate ideal mixture readings hence tricking the ECM.  Then the aftermarket fuel computer then can do its thing to add (or subtract) fuel being injected into the motor according to it's new map.

 The points raised in the article about our fuel being different to the US market also makes sense, so a generic map or settings from a US source can get close but can't exactly match our local conditions, it'll get you in the ball park butfine tuning is still required.

Whilst some of us can add an aftermarket unit to their bike and tune it themselves and get excellent results, I think if you are going to spend this sort of money its well worth going the extra to get it tuned on a dyno by an expert, unfortunately for some this may not be possible due to distance.

Unfortunately this will probably all be a thing of the past soon.

Because I'm 1000k return trip from a dyno, the Bandit has a PC5 self mapped with their Autotune module (wide band sensor)

But my KTM uses canbus (as do several manufacturers now and becoming more common) and they can't be dynotuned by any commercial tuners or by third party tuning software (tuneecu or tuneboy)

So as more manufacturers switch to canbus that'll be more dynotuners closing down.

I've been wanting to ask this question for some time and now seems as good as any.

The FI model bandits has an engine management module (ECU) that amongst other things controls the fuel.

I have seen advertised an SDS tool comprising a program on CD plus an interface to plug the bike into your PC.

Haven't Suzuki thus provided the means to optimise fuel and other parameters and why is it necessary to purchase a Power Commander which I understand achieves a similar result.

That's my question.


Why am I asking this as I no longer own a Bandit.
My CBR650F has similar parts listed for it, a CD plus an interface cable.

The SDS doesn't do fuel remapping, Dave.

What iTag said,  the SDS main function is to read error codes and provide information about the engine and its sensors.  The software can't remap the OEM fuel injection program, I'm not sure if the ECU even has the capabillity to allow re-flashing, otherwise there would be a big business in doing this rather than all the add-on modules such as PCIII/V. TCI etc.

The SDS is basically a hardware interface, you still need a laptop and associated software to do any diagnostics.  They (the SDS) are becoming harder to source these days, only one on eBay at $800 (plus postage - how petty is that seller    ), however there might be some $250 units out of China that makes it a little more affordable.



As far as the future goes, I think we will start seeing most manufacturers adopting the OBD2 interface like they have had to by law for cars and trucks for years now.  This will open the way for mobile phone style diagnostic and performance monitoring.  



But as far as messing with the fuel map on CANBUS machines, I don't think its the end of the line, if anything I think we will start to see even more aftermarket electronic performance enhancement.  The current methodology should still apply, that is (a) trick the factory ECU that it's running a standard map by sending back controlled sensor signals such as O2 readings etc., and then (b) intercept the fuel injector signal and substitute more or less pulse width depending on the power and A/F requirements.  

The cagers have been playing with CANBUS for years (ISO 11898 was released in 1993) so it won't be that difficult for them to introduce it on bikes.  Actually one or two already have it - Ducati 999 back in 2002, BMW started it with the R1200 in 2004 and  Harley-Davidson is now using Can-Bus to monitor operation of the headlight, taillight, brake light and the signals in some cases on some 2011- 2013 models and then beginning with all models in 2014.  CANBUS is just a simple (in the electronic communications sense) means of controllers, sensors and actuators to work together.

Barry, the ECU can be re-mapped.  It is offered as a service here in NZ and I believe the Yosh Box will work on them too, although you need a good idea what to set it to.  I like the Dobeck TFIs as you can adjust them like a carb. Similar price to the ECU re-map but much easier to change without a dyno. 

Healtech make an OBD2 tool that can be used to tune the Suzuki EFI motors like the Bandits and the GSX:

http://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/obd/

I think I'll keep with the masses and stay with a run-of-the-mill Dobeck or PC-V. As I said, if re-flashing/mapping was so easy and cheap, then everybody would be doing it that way. The fact they aren't say volumes about how good this process is (IMHO). As most re-maps are a one off process, if it doesn't work properly then your up for the cost again, with a tunable system there is much more flexablility.

The OBD is still a diagnostic tool, again I don't think you can change the fuel map with it as it performs the same function as the SDS, glad to be corrected if I have it wrong. At least it is a more sensable price than the SDS.

barry_mcki wrote:The OBD is still a diagnostic tool, again I don't think you can change the fuel map with it as it performs the same function as the SDS, glad to be corrected if I have it wrong.  At least it is a more sensable price than the SDS.

That's right Barry. I have the OBD. Its an almost identical copy of the SDS.

The Yosh box is an ecu reflasher  but the Dobeck is the same as Power Commanders, Bazzaz'es and so on. The Dobeck pot feature just groups together large groups of map cells and makes a broad brush adjustment across them all. So you lose the precision of a good map but you can have a go at it at home.

Haven't really taken that much notice of the Yosh Box previously, so decided to look into it a bit.  I pride myself on knowing a little about electronics, even reprogrammed my own EPROM's to make umm "backup copies" of Atari game modules back in the day, but having looked over what some of these ECU hackers have done puts them in the rocket scientist area  

Yes, I stand corrected, you can reflash the ECU fuel map, plus lots of other things like removing speed limiters, TRE enhancements, etc. So technically it is a better solution to the fuel add-on boxes, but.....

It is still a setup, flash, pull down, test, check, resetup reflash, rinse and repeat until you get it right.  The best option would be to reflash the parameters in the ECU you want to change except the fuel map, and then use an add-on box to accomplish that part.

I'm now reading a 97 page DIY hack for reflashing a GSXR1000 just to understand the process, I hate Google Search, loose too much sleep....  .

Have a look at these guys http://woolichracing.com/ , they are inn Brisbane.

This allows you to use leverage the capabilities of the standard system.  Plus, I will be able to apply the same solution (with an additional harness) to the Bandit and the Gixxer.  Cost wise, if you are considering a PC-V + automap, then it is pretty competitive.

If anyone here is interested in some serious ECU hacking, here is a site where several people seem to have made some progress at communicating with various Suzuki bikes using simple interface devices.

For what it is worth
http://www.ecuhacking.activeboard.com/t22573776/sds-protocol/?page=1&sort=oldestFirst

Dekenai, that link is true bike porn. If they can work out how to talk to canbus I'll hand 'em my credit card with instructions to gut it.

!Tag wrote:Dekenai, that link is true bike porn. If they can work out how to talk to canbus I'll hand 'em my credit card with instructions to gut it.

It's only time before some of the tech geeks come with a cheap way. 
As at the bottom of this page!

http://canbuskit.com/what.php

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUALLLLLL  for this thread.

Its happened at last and this thread made me go for another look.

Power Commanders for canbus models have been released at last

After 2 years of riding a bike with the world's ugliest snatch I can now throw away my mouthguard (690 Duke owners have to wear these so their teeth don't get broken by the fuelling)

I have to log off now and throw my credit card at somebody.

!Tag wrote: the world's ugliest snatch

Please dont google that

2wheelsagain wrote:

!Tag wrote: the world's ugliest snatch

Please dont google that

Too late ahhhh....

He knew I'd take it as a personal challenge, Barry.

This was search result 1:


Search result 5 was a thread from an Australian motorcycle forum.