B1200 vs B1250

First topic message reminder :

Hey Riders,

Those of us who ride B12's will probably know that the engine starts to kick from 6000rpm and up. By that I mean if you are in or slightly above that rpm and you grab a fist full of throttle it will haul. Or if you do the same but at say 5,000rpm you will notice a power band once you reach 6K+. Front wheel gets really light or even comes away - feels good when you're expecting it to happen.

Now on my 1250FA I'm not finding any real kick. It has K&N, Healtech FI tuner, X-TRE, Two Bros slip on. Torque down low and mid is excellent and I would say superior to the B12 in that department.
Up the higher end it's just not there. Reason I bring this up is today I hit the rev limiter totally by accident whilst waiting for the power to come on. Yes it powered away but not like my B12 with a poor mans stage 1 (jets, needle adjustment, K&N, slipon and 1.5" hole in the airbox lid).

Am I comparing apples with apples or have I got it all wrong and the FA is just in need of a set of Yoshimura cams?

Summing it up, I'm feeling a bit dissapointed in my FA when I compare it with my old K6 B12.

A penny for your thoughts.

We might be splitting hairs but I hardly think increasing capacity then strangling the engine qualifies as detuning.
Other bikes have the same engine as their sports bike cousins but in a detuned state. Not so the 1200
Happy to debate it though. Carry on.

no..i might just talk to a brick wall instead

4wheelsagain wrote:We might be splitting hairs but I hardly think increasing capacity then strangling the engine qualifies as detuning.
Other bikes have the same engine as their sports bike cousins but in a detuned state. Not so the 1200
Happy to debate it though. Carry on.

4wheelsagain wrote:We might be splitting hairs but I hardly think increasing capacity then strangling the engine qualifies as detuning.
Other bikes have the same engine as their sports bike cousins but in a detuned state. Not so the 1200
Happy to debate it though. Carry on.

You've told me before and I've gone nahhhhh, But you were right. Yep, Your a STUBBORN man

Reardo wrote:

4wheelsagain wrote:We might be splitting hairs but I hardly think increasing capacity then strangling the engine qualifies as detuning.
Other bikes have the same engine as their sports bike cousins but in a detuned state. Not so the 1200
Happy to debate it though. Carry on.

You've told me before and I've gone nahhhhh, But you were right. Yep, Your a STUBBORN man

Define stubborn
I need a new stirring stick now

mtbeerwah wrote:no..i might just talk to a brick wall instead

4wheelsagain wrote:We might be splitting hairs but I hardly think increasing capacity then strangling the engine qualifies as detuning.
Other bikes have the same engine as their sports bike cousins but in a detuned state. Not so the 1200
Happy to debate it though. Carry on.

+1

I dont understand what is so hard to beleive about making it a larger capacity and then tuning it to be USABLE on the road as a Sports Tourer.

4wheelsagain wrote:We might be splitting hairs but I hardly think increasing capacity then strangling the engine qualifies as detuning.
Other bikes have the same engine as their sports bike cousins but in a detuned state. Not so the 1200
Happy to debate it though. Carry on.

Yep, you're right Chris, boring an engine out is a performance mod, so what we have here is hot-up version of the GSX1100 engine.

Some interesting facts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Bandit_series

Wiki pastes

The first 1200 Bandit models were generally released in January 1996, featuring a retuned and enlarged version of the engine featured in the GSX-R1100.

The 1,200 cc model's engine is a bored out GSXR 1100 item.

holdenman wrote:Wiki pastes

The first 1200 Bandit models were generally released in January 1996, featuring a retuned and enlarged version of the engine featured in the GSX-R1100.

The 1,200 cc model's engine is a bored out GSXR 1100 item.

Don't believe every thing you read on the net

holdenman wrote:Wiki pastes


The first 1200 Bandit models were generally released in January 1996, featuring a retuned and enlarged version of the engine featured in the GSX-R1100.

The 1,200 cc model's engine is a bored out GSXR 1100 item.

I didn't say it wasn't the engine from the GSXR. I said there wasn't a GSXR1200 in the same way that the Kawa Z1000 uses the ZX10 mill in a detuned state or the FZ1 (both incarnations) sing the old 998cc R1 mill and a host of other bikes using the same bores and strokes as their sports bike cousins in a detuned/returned configuration.
I'm only making a point. Not disagreeing with the heritage of the 1200.

I can't imagine having more torque low down than the b12 has. I must get on a b1250 and take it for a ride....

If what you say about the top end of the b1250 is the case, i don't want one....
I like the fact that on the b12 I can commute to and from work without having to work the engine hard, never going over 4-5,000 rpm and getting fuel economy..... (6-7L/100km)

I alo like the fact that I can go for a ride on the weekend and keep up with every other bike on the road doing legal x 2 speeds and really get that kick in the ass from the higher end of the rev limited. Plus the noise at 8-10,000rpm is AWESOME with the staintune on it....

I would love to get rid of the manual choke though :-S

i never said the bandit was the off spin of the gsxr1100, i said it had a detuned engine from the gsxr1100 with 30cc more. the engine is basically interchangeable with the gsxr 750 and the gsxr1100 because they all have the same basic layout, where the 1250 has no host bike to change with,so the 1200 bandit engine is open for a lot of engine tuning due to its host bikes with the same layout,eg; the gsxr750 with the dot head and its cams that have high lift and duration which is sort after due to its smaller combustion chamber in the head bolts right on to the bandit

Woah up.
I would call the Bandit 1200's engine a "retuned" GSXR1100 engine - not a detuned.
Found a UK website which does a 1400cc overbore kit for this engine. Both high Capacity and high compression (I think 13:1)


http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/category.asp?idCategory=1

My 1250 is a perfect sports tourer engine up to 7,000rpm after that it just lays down and has a nanna nap.
Remedy - remove secondaries and find a good dyno operator to tune things up. Basically I want then engine to pull all the way up to say 8,500rpm.
Does those of us who have pulled these 'flies out - agree with the performance request?

B12 mill is the same as the GSXR1100 (there is no GSXR1200) motor. Most of the internals for the oil cooled 750/1100/B12 engines are the same. Heads, cams, pistons, con rods, exhausts, carbie boots, carbies, oil pump, can be interchanged. The B12 has a diferent cam chain and gears, smaller valves and larger compression chamber, 36mm carbies not 38mm.

I have a GSXR750 intake cam in the bandit, from an 89 model. If you look up the Suzuki part number for the cam you will see it's the same number for 750s 85-90 and 1100s 86-92 (84-92?).

Even the Hyabusa may someday be a donor for my Bandit for pistons and conrods for a 1216 rebore. Standard busa pistons are 81mm, but useless by themselves as the comp ratio given is about 7.5:1, only good for turbos. The busa conrods are 17.5mm long, 2.5mm longer than bandit rods, giving extra weight for more torque. The longer rods will need two extra base gaskets to allow the pistons to sit flush on the top of the blocks. This will bring the comp ratio up to 10.?:1. I'll also need slotted cam sprockets to time the cams as they will be out too far. A fair bit more work than just boring and dropping in a 1216 piston kit, but if the price of these bits is right (seen for $150 on ebay) I may get the whole job done for the same cost as a new piston kit alone.

I don't know how many people have seen what you can get out of the 1250. A couple of charts I nicked
Have a look. If someone has a couple of 1200 charts?

I don't think dyno's always tell the full story though.... But I agree its probably the only way you can compared on paper....

I think in reality the B1200 and B1250 are two totally different bikes.....

Hammy wrote:

Reardo wrote:I don't know how many people have seen what you can get out of the 1250. A couple of charts I nicked
Have a look. If someone has a couple of 1200 charts?

Is that from your bike ?

Hammy wrote:

Shows why my back wheel spins up on the daily commute at the moment. Nice big tropical low happening here in Daaaaarwin...

Had a bit of a chat to Holeshot Performance. His headers seem to really awaken the 1250 up.
I think I will go down this route. Secondaries out - TB sync and TPS check. Fit headers and down to the dyno to set it all up.
Wonder how the 1250 would go with all this AND a pair of Yoshi cams?

I think whichever way you go - PC3 / PCV, TFI, Juicebox or Healtech FI Tuner Pro - all will deliver results.

Full Throttle wrote:Had a bit of a chat to Holeshot Performance. His headers seem to really awaken the 1250 up.
I think I will go down this route. Secondaries out - TB sync and TPS check. Fit headers and down to the dyno to set it all up.
Wonder how the 1250 would go with all this AND a pair of Yoshi cams?

I think whichever way you go - PC3 / PCV, TFI, Juicebox or Healtech FI Tuner Pro - all will deliver results.

I just got 130hp out of a mate's with the Dale Walker headers, TFI, open airbox/K and N and secondaries out. He is very happy. Got some photos of Dale's headers when I did the install at: http://kewwibike.blogspot.com/2011/10/holeshot-headers.html

kewwig wrote:

Full Throttle wrote:Had a bit of a chat to Holeshot Performance. His headers seem to really awaken the 1250 up.
I think I will go down this route. Secondaries out - TB sync and TPS check. Fit headers and down to the dyno to set it all up.
Wonder how the 1250 would go with all this AND a pair of Yoshi cams?

I think whichever way you go - PC3 / PCV, TFI, Juicebox or Healtech FI Tuner Pro - all will deliver results.

I just got 130hp out of a mate's with the Dale Walker headers, TFI, open airbox/K and N and secondaries out. He is very happy. Got some photos of Dale's headers when I did the install at: http://kewwibike.blogspot.com/2011/10/holeshot-headers.html

That's a good and impressive effort.
Shall I break out the FZ1 specs?

4wheelsagain wrote:

kewwig wrote:

Full Throttle wrote:Had a bit of a chat to Holeshot Performance. His headers seem to really awaken the 1250 up.
I think I will go down this route. Secondaries out - TB sync and TPS check. Fit headers and down to the dyno to set it all up.
Wonder how the 1250 would go with all this AND a pair of Yoshi cams?

I think whichever way you go - PC3 / PCV, TFI, Juicebox or Healtech FI Tuner Pro - all will deliver results.

I just got 130hp out of a mate's with the Dale Walker headers, TFI, open airbox/K and N and secondaries out. He is very happy. Got some photos of Dale's headers when I did the install at: http://kewwibike.blogspot.com/2011/10/holeshot-headers.html

That's a good and impressive effort.
Shall I break out the FZ1 specs?

If you must......

chips wrote:

4wheelsagain wrote:

kewwig wrote:

Full Throttle wrote:Had a bit of a chat to Holeshot Performance. His headers seem to really awaken the 1250 up.
I think I will go down this route. Secondaries out - TB sync and TPS check. Fit headers and down to the dyno to set it all up.
Wonder how the 1250 would go with all this AND a pair of Yoshi cams?

I think whichever way you go - PC3 / PCV, TFI, Juicebox or Healtech FI Tuner Pro - all will deliver results.

I just got 130hp out of a mate's with the Dale Walker headers, TFI, open airbox/K and N and secondaries out. He is very happy. Got some photos of Dale's headers when I did the install at: http://kewwibike.blogspot.com/2011/10/holeshot-headers.html

That's a good and impressive effort.
Shall I break out the FZ1 specs?

If you must......

Nar don't want to piss people off even more. Trying to be a good boy