1200 piston job

So...... I gots to take off the valve cover to replace a busted bolt, and I'm like all oooo maybe while I've got this much annoyingness done, maybe I should try some um more modifications....

I'm liking the look of the 1200 high compression kit or the 1216 kit from http://www.holeshot.com/

Make up for that embarrassing shortfall in ccs....

Anyone ever done any of these?

Before I say anything, what`s your immediate problem you have,

a bolt what problem and where?

mtbeerwah wrote:Before I say anything, what`s your immediate problem you have,

a bolt what problem and where?

just a valve cover bolt needs helicoiling.

Nothing major, just a leetle leaky.

how many K`s you got on it?

unless your approaching higher K`s, I wouldn`t touch it yet, and I`m talking getting close to or around 200 000km, and even then, only if you got spare cash, or it really needs it.

mtbeerwah wrote:how many K`s you got on it?

unless your approaching higher K`s, I wouldn`t touch it yet, and I`m talking getting close to or around 200 000km, and even then, only if you got spare cash, or it really needs it.

just shy of 100k

and yeah I KNOW you are right. It is running smoothly.

but yeah, you know

probably I should be spending money on suspension upgrades

(Did an piston / top end on my single recently and it made a nice difference, but it did need it. The bandit doesn't. Dammit )

well, I`ve just done a 1216 with flowed head, and both gix cams.  Yes it goes extremely well.  

 I`m still playing with it to get it right. The 1216 does run hotter, and it does, inmo, need a bigger oil cooler, which I`m in the process of researching the best option for the job.  Then properly tuning it.   This will be a slow process, of trial and error, until I`m happy with it. One session at a dyno won`t suit me, it might get AF right but there will be a lot of mucking around in tune, to get the EXACT exhaust system, and airbox set up, to get it right.

I slowly, bought parts for over 3-4 years, to do this, and it wasn`t something I took lightly, or over night, and I`ve put a lot of money into this, but as I said, over a long period of time, so didn`t hurt the pocket all at once.

I`ve got another 2 engines laying around, and will do another build one day,  for my other bandit, but will do high compression 1157 piston only, not 1216, just for the sake of it running cooler, without having to change oil coolers, or extra coolers.

There is no doubt, it will change the bike as you know it, into something very addictive to ride, but for the moment, just fix your bolt, and spend the money on making you bike safer, ie: suspension and braking.

mtbeerwah wrote:well, I`ve just done a 1216 with flowed head, and both gix cams.  Yes it goes extremely well.  

 I`m still playing with it to get it right. The 1216 does run hotter, and it does, inmo, need a bigger oil cooler, which I`m in the process of researching the best option for the job.  Then properly tuning it.   This will be a slow process, of trial and error, until I`m happy with it. One session at a dyno won`t suit me, it might get AF right but there will be a lot of mucking around in tune, to get the EXACT exhaust system, and airbox set up, to get it right.

I slowly, bought parts for over 3-4 years, to do this, and it wasn`t something I took lightly, or over night, and I`ve put a lot of money into this, but as I said, over a long period of time, so didn`t hurt the pocket all at once.

I`ve got another 2 engines laying around, and will do another build one day,  for my other bandit, but will do high compression 1157 piston only, not 1216, just for the sake of it running cooler, without having to change oil coolers, or extra coolers.

There is no doubt, it will change the bike as you know it, into something very addictive to ride, but for the moment, just fix your bolt, and spend the money on making you bike safer, ie: suspension and braking.

Did you do anything with the airbox? I did the dale walker stage II, and it made a HUGE difference. Pretty amazing really.

Dale has just released a high compression 1200 kit as well. Wonder if that will impact on the cooling?

Interested to see / hear how it goes with the coolers, too.

I`m going a bit against the grain, and not listening to Dale in full with his set ups.

I think a correctly designed plenum set up, will be better than ripping the lid off the air box. I still think that its a very antiquated way of tuning. In saying that, yes, his research does produce better than stock numbers, but if you look at his dyno numbers, stage 2, gives bugger all difference than stage one, so I`m not sold on ever doing that.

But to get the correct set up, to suit what I`ve got, you really need to be a mathematician and rocket scientist to get correct flow and pulse reverberation from an airbox, and removing a lid wont do that, like I say, a lot of trial and error.

I will be working with the guy who built it, who runs pro stock, and has a lot of knowledge in tuning, and will take a long time to get it right

Have a read of this, about air intake systems. Do I understand it, well no, not really. I understand the basics of what they`re saying, but to build one correctly is a far greater challenge.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/airbox.html

Very interesting reading, mtb. 
It makes sense to me, the resonant waves inside the airbox. It's a similar principle to the action of a two stroke exhaust chamber.  The resonant waves only get into sync with the intake at a certain rev range, resulting in the two stroke supercharging that everyone knows as the power band. 
Most four stroke bikes that I have owned have had a sweet spot, a rev range where they seemed to run beautifully. Vfr750 was especially noticeable. I now understand that it must have been the right rev range to setup the good resonance in the airbox,  in conjunction with all of the other variable settings such as timing, fuel etc. 
Nice one. 

being a complete amateur and numpty in this field, yep I read the article.

All I know is that I put in the air-filter pods replacing the airbox, increased jet size and boom way way way way way more power.

kaboom.

there`s no denying what you`ve done will increase the power over stock, its just our engines don`t produce enough power in standard form to need that much airflow, and with the correct set up, can pressurize the air, but being able to build that unit correctly will be beyond my basic ability without the help of someone in the know. I can fab it, but I`ll need the drawings.

not that I care too much about economy on a bike, how has the stage 2 effected yours?

mtbeerwah wrote:there`s no denying what you`ve done will increase the power over stock, its just our engines don`t produce enough power in standard form to need that much airflow, and with the correct set up, can pressurize the air, but being able to build that unit correctly will be beyond my basic ability without the help of someone in the know. I can fab it, but I`ll need the drawings.

not that I care too much about economy on a bike, how has the stage 2 effected yours?

I hear you in regards to your air flow. Am very interested to see how it all works out, it is an interesting and complex subject.

And yes, fuel economy hahaha NO..... um yeah the carbied bike uses plenty more than the EFI version. I sometimes wish I could have EFI version with the oil cooled engine (yes I probably need a 1400).

Anyway, I digress. Despite the carbie jets increasing from 100 to 150 with the stage 2 stuff, and I have to say my riding style is not focused on fuel economy, the consumption has remained reasonably steady-ish. Possibly, if I concentrate hard enough on a fuel economy ride, it is actually better. And with way more acceleration, it's pretty good.

The bike really also only uses 10% or so more than my single, which is also pretty good.

Just a small rough chart. Blue was fuel economy before the stage 2, green after. In L/100km.
Couple of gaps in there, but you get the idea.