Best fuel to run

crimsondawn wrote:Just wondering what the general consensus is for fuel octane rating to run in the Bandit?


I have run 91 since new but filled with 96 today. Not sure I will notice much.


What you guys reckon?

As long as you put your left glove on first you'll be right

Book says 91, dealer says 95 or better. I've always used premium, whatever I can get.

I run 95 most of the time. It might be imaginitious but I reckon it feels a little pokier than 91, which I've put in the the odd occassion.

I was talking to my tuner about it when I pick up my bike.
I asked if it was ok to run it on 91. He said it was only ok if I had to and that I should run everything
on 95. Even the lawn mower if I want to last longer.
It's like cheap oil. It will cost you in the long term.

Reardo wrote:I was talking to my tuner about it when I pick up my bike.
I asked if it was ok to run it on 91. He said it was only ok if I had to and that I should run everything
on 95. Even the lawn mower if I want to last longer.
It's like cheap oil. It will cost you in the long term.

I'd love to hear his reasoning.
I'd be looking for a new tuner unless he has some pearl of wisdom that nobody else knows about.
Its nothing like cheap oil cock

I read somewhere that the high octane fuel has a cleaning agent in it for fuel injection systems. Is that true ?

Dealer told me 95 or better, I get better mileage out of 98 than 95 on the highway, around town not as big a difference. Last year when I did 6500 km 2 up in less than 2 weeks I found I got better from Shell 98 than the others, my car seems to get better from Caltex

Yes you get better mileage with higher octane, but thats it. The motor isn't high compression so it makes sweet FA difference. It's one thing I like about the bandit. If you are in the sticks it'll run on practally anything. Also 98 is at least 10c+ dearer than 91. I normally run a few tanks of 91 and then a tank of 95 just for something different.

crimsondawn wrote:

2wheelsagain wrote:

crimsondawn wrote:Just wondering what the general consensus is for fuel octane rating to run in the Bandit?


I have run 91 since new but filled with 96 today. Not sure I will notice much.


What you guys reckon?

As long as you put your left glove on first you'll be right

Damn, I've been doing it wrong all these years

That only works with your boots

reddog wrote:Yes you get better mileage with higher octane, but thats it. The motor isn't high compression so it makes sweet FA difference. It's one thing I like about the bandit. If you are in the sticks it'll run on practally anything. Also 98 is at least 10c+ dearer than 91. I normally run a few tanks of 91 and then a tank of 95 just for something different.

Premium fuels also have a higher shelve life, and as I generally buy my fuel in Jerry cans it could sit for 2-3 weeks before its all used. Its also worth it for the cleaning additives it contains.

Speaking of fuel. I gots ta thinking. Just how long do we have until we start drying up our fossil fuel reserves ?

Goggle search. One page I read says that we have about 1300 billion barrels left, worldwide. We , the world, use 87 million barrels a day. That gives us. Wait for it . Roughly 41 years worth. Thats all. And the way some countries are developing, like China, it could be less. That , if it is true, is a pretty sobering thought. Petrol rationing would probably be one of the first things brought in. Just how fast can our scientists come up with safe, economic alternatives. Our children, grand/great children will certainly be around to see it. I guess it will be the same as when our great grandparents thought back to their parents who only had horse and carts for transport. When you think about it, we certainly have gobbled up one of our most precious assets very quickly. Sorry to put a downer on the thread. Just thought it was worth a mention.

This is a cut n paste from another site that offers some scientific insites.
Enjoy.

According to Shell Australia’s Technical Advice Centre Manager, Warren Scott, you can generally store fuel in a sealed container for around six months before it starts to deteriorate. This assumes it’s kept relatively cool and away from direct sunlight.

“But if the container is not properly sealed or it’s repeatedly opened, [fuel] will start to evaporate and you lose some of the light components in the fuel,” Mr Warren says.

Those light components include highly important butane. As these components are lost, the fuel loses its volatility. Mr Warren says this makes the car difficult to start.

In warm conditions, fuel is especially prone to oxidisation which causes lacquer and gums to form. As a result, the fuel turns dark in colour, loses its clarity and smells like paint stripper.


Gary Whitfield, Senior Fuel Chemist at BP Australia, says that in the right conditions, fuel can last up to 12 months. But once the container is opened, the fuel will start to degrade.

“Once the seal is broken, a vapour space is formed in the container and the fuel will start to deteriorate more rapidly,” he says.

Okay, so what about fuel that’s left in your car’s tank for a long period of time?

Mr Whitfield claims fuel in a car’s tank can last for up to four weeks before it becomes considerably denser. When this happens, the engine is effectively over-fuelled (without any change in injector pulse-width) and there’s an increased chance of carbon deposition onto spark plugs and inside the combustion chamber. This can cause driveability problems such as stutters and misses.

“Regular unleaded fuel will lose a small amount of octane over time but in our low-sulphur and high detergent Ultimate fuel it might increase very slightly. It might increase 1 RON in four weeks – but it’s not something I’d bother chasing,” he says.

“Keep in mind that typical variation in BP Ultimate is 98 – 100 RON while normal unleaded ranges between 91 – 93 RON.”


Mr Warren says that in most cases, it’s only when fuel is left in the tank for several months there’s the risk of engine damage. This is much more likely to occur in cars running dual LPG/petrol systems.

“By this time the fuel will have gone dark and gummy and can clag the fuel pump, filter and injectors,” Mr Warren says. It can also leave a lacquer deposit on the inside of the fuel tank which is difficult to remove.

In addition, it’s important to be aware that fuel brews – specifically fuel volatility - varies on a month to month basis. Standards vary from state to state but, generally, volatility is reduced during summer months to reduce evaporative emissions. Mr Whitfield says this typically makes the engine slightly harder to start but there is no change in octane.


Lachlan Riddel, proprietor of Gold Coast based tuning company ChipTorque, frequently dyno tests cars which have not previously been driven for several weeks.

“On the fuel mix we have in Queensland, I think fuel in a car’s tank is starting to go off in around three weeks,” Mr Riddel says. “We can tune a car, put it away for three of four weeks, come back to it and it will be either closer to detonation or less likely to make the same power.

“I think local fuel is brewed to reduce evaporative emissions in warm weather and, maybe because of that, fuel really goes crappy in eight to ten weeks. By that stage, the fuel is extremely prone to detonation.”

Interestingly, Mr Riddel hasn’t noticed the engine becoming harder to start but the effect on octane is pronounced.

Similarly, the General Manager of Melbourne’s Advanced Vehicle Operations, Steve Coates, believes fuel tends to go off in a car’s fuel tank quite quickly once it’s a couple of weeks old.

“After a couple of weeks not driving a car, I find that it will be closer to detonation than it was at the time of tuning on the chassis dyno,” he says.

“And the brand of fuel seems to make a difference as well – I find that Mobil and BP products are probably the best after being stored but Shell Optimax is really good when it’s new."

Clearly, there are some important factors to keep in mind when storing fuel in a container for several months or when parking your car for a few weeks.

Our recommendation is not to run the engine at high load with fuel that’s been in the tank for any more than three of four weeks and it’s a good idea to add at least 25 percent fresh fuel to the tank every few weeks. This will help ensure there are no fuel-related driveability problems or detonation and will reduce the chance of lacquer building up inside the tank.

Hammy wrote:Speaking of fuel. I gots ta thinking. Just how long do we have until we start drying up our fossil fuel reserves ?

Goggle search. One page I read says that we have about 1300 billion barrels left, worldwide. We , the world, use 87 million barrels a day. That gives us. Wait for it . Roughly 41 years worth. Thats all. And the way some countries are developing, like China, it could be less. That , if it is true, is a pretty sobering thought. Petrol rationing would probably be one of the first things brought in. Just how fast can our scientists come up with safe, economic alternatives. Our children, grand/great children will certainly be around to see it. I guess it will be the same as when our great grandparents thought back to their parents who only had horse and carts for transport. When you think about it, we certainly have gobbled up one of our most precious assets very quickly. Sorry to put a downer on the thread. Just thought it was worth a mention.

Just remember that in the '70s we were told that all the fossil fuel would be gone before the year 2000!
Also we have more options now, I will sleep soundly knowing the fuels will outlast my bike.

Mine runs like crap on 91 and drinks it like water. I mostly run 95 but 98 now and then. There's a kilometre difference of 10 k's between them and little difference in performance.

crimsondawn wrote:

Hammy wrote:Speaking of fuel. I gots ta thinking. Just how long do we have until we start drying up our fossil fuel reserves ?

Goggle search. One page I read says that we have about 1300 billion barrels left, worldwide. We , the world, use 87 million barrels a day. That gives us. Wait for it . Roughly 41 years worth. Thats all. And the way some countries are developing, like China, it could be less. That , if it is true, is a pretty sobering thought. Petrol rationing would probably be one of the first things brought in. Just how fast can our scientists come up with safe, economic alternatives. Our children, grand/great children will certainly be around to see it. I guess it will be the same as when our great grandparents thought back to their parents who only had horse and carts for transport. When you think about it, we certainly have gobbled up one of our most precious assets very quickly. Sorry to put a downer on the thread. Just thought it was worth a mention.

I remember about 30-35 years ago we were being told we had only 50 years before the oil reserves dry up. It's obviously going to happen, the only question is 'when?'

I'll run mine on LPG when that happens.

ULP should be fine. PULP is also fine. Just don't use that E10 crap.

I generally use PULP, I find it get slightly further on a tank, but more importantly the carbies don't ice up as bad in Winter.

crimsondawn wrote:Let us know where you mount the bottle

No more fuel tank

I thought LPG was a by product from refining oil into petrol ? If so, no more LPG.

crimsondawn wrote:Given that you use 1/3 more LPG than ULP for the same mileage, you would have to increase fills times, or expand the volume.

LPG is only 10% less efficient than petrol, the hassle is you loose 20% of you fuel tank capacity due to expansion, i.e. a 100 lt tank should only be filled to 80 lts. So overall if you had a 20 lt tank to start with on the bike, you'd be getting the mileage of 14.4 lts, so technically you don't loose a third in effeciency, it's just that overall you are filling up 1/3 sooner.

Not sure if the LPG injection technology is up there yet, they were still playing around with this last time I looked at it, needed to start the vehicle on petrol then switch to LPG once going. Things may have improved in the last couple of years since I was playing with my old beast, a fully converted LPG Fairlane (no petrol tank at all). We ran 1200cfm of Gas Research carbs (side draft mixers) on a 460cu in (7.8 lt) big block, the 80 lts of gas got about 100kms - I think that's about 3.5 mpg, but it was sure fun getting there. The only hassle was "there" couldn't be very far away

barry_mcki wrote:

crimsondawn wrote:Given that you use 1/3 more LPG than ULP for the same mileage, you would have to increase fills times, or expand the volume.

LPG is only 10% less efficient than petrol, the hassle is you loose 20% of you fuel tank capacity due to expansion, i.e. a 100 lt tank should only be filled to 80 lts. So overall if you had a 20 lt tank to start with on the bike, you'd be getting the mileage of 14.4 lts, so technically you don't loose a third in effeciency, it's just that overall you are filling up 1/3 sooner.

Not sure if the LPG injection technology is up there yet, they were still playing around with this last time I looked at it, needed to start the vehicle on petrol then switch to LPG once going. Things may have improved in the last couple of years since I was playing with my old beast, a fully converted LPG Fairlane (no petrol tank at all). We ran 1200cfm of Gas Research carbs (side draft mixers) on a 460cu in (7.8 lt) big block, the 80 lts of gas got about 100kms - I think that's about 3.5 mpg, but it was sure fun getting there. The only hassle was "there" couldn't be very far away

The new Falcon Liquid Phase injection system is much better than the old venturi and vapour injection systems.

Some of the key attributes of our Falcon EcoLPi. Here are 10 things you may not have know about the hi-tech engine.

1. Falcon’s EcoLPi engine develops 198 kW of power at 5000
   rpm and 409 Nm of torque at 3250 rpm - identical to the petrol I6 engine
   when operating on premium unleaded 95 RON fuel
   
2. Falcon EcoLPI produces 27 per cent more power and 10 per cent more torque than the previous E-Gas LPG system
   
3. Falcon EcoLPi uses Liquid-Phase injection - the most advanced LPG technology currently available
   
4. Liquid
   Phase injection delivers significant driveability and operating
   improvements over the previous E-Gas venturi-style vapour system
   
5. LPG
   when injected as a liquid offers volumetric efficiency improvements
   (over vapour systems), via charge cooling as the liquid changes phase in
   the intake port
   
6. New technology has been developed and patented
   for the EcoLPI system allowing the fuel system to 'prime' with fresh
   liquid LPG, and is ready start when the customer turns the key
   
7. Ford Australia has been the only local manufacturer to offer an OE dedicated LPG technology from the factory since 1998
   
8. Falcon
   XT EcoLPi delivers 12.3 litres/100km and 199 g/km CO2; G6, G6E and XR6
   deliver 12.4 litres/100km and 202 g/km; Falcon XL and XR6 EcoLPi Ute
   models deliver 13.9 litres/100km and 226 g/km
   
9. Ford’s EcoLPi
   line-up includes Falcon XT, G6, G6E and XR6 sedans, Falcon XL and XR6
   Utes, in both Cab Chassis and Styleside Box body
   
10. Falcon EcoLPi
    offers customers power, torque and engine performance of a traditional
    Aussie six with the fuel costs of a hatchback
    

Did You Know?

• LPG has the combustion characteristics of a premium-fuel engine
  
• LPG
  Fuel is a low cost Hi Octane premium fuel that if used with the latest
  Liquid injection technology delivers equivalent or improved power,
  torque and drivability to that of a petrol engine
  
• LPG is a
  green fuel it has a high Hydrogen to Carbon content ratio so when it
  burns it produces more water (H20) and less CO2 to that of petrol. (In
  Ford’s EcoLPi application it has yielded a 17% improvement in CO2 when
  coupled with a higher compression ratio)
  
• LPG is a high octane, low cost fuel
  

Good to see things have inproved - I believe the Dandelong Gas Research Company I got my system from worked extensively with Ford for a number of years with there project.

When we changed over LPG was about 20c a litre, considering it is essentially a by product of the petrolium process, it has increase in price a greater percentage than standard fuel, I think it was a conspiricy as they saw me doing the conversion

Interesting the mileage figures are still fairly ordinary, 20 to 22 mpg in the old money, I seem to remember my G6ET got better than that with the right foot planted most of the time.

But being only a tinker we only dabbled with LPG to get the big block through rego due to the
cleaner exhaust. Our little project only got us 340rwkw in a 2 ton car .

22mpg when LPG is better than half the cost of petrol equates to better than 45mpg

The real cost is not so much how much you used but how much it cost you to get there.

when i was on the tankers for BP in NZ the biggest part of the load was usually 91 little bit of 95 and little diesel

Unloading is done on the diesel compartment first then the 91 as it is the biggest quantity and takes the longest to discharge even with 2 hoses running to the ground fill point

When the diesel runs out we would lift the hose to remove most of the diesel and then use the same hose to discharge the 95 fuel into it's respective tank

Washing out the diesel from the hose in the process into the 95 tank maybe less than a liter of diesel into the 95 ground tank

This was better than the diesel hose going back into the hose tray on the truck with residual fuel seeping out and spraying the following vehicles
Any residual petrol usually evaporates before leaving the delivery site not diesel

So at least the 95 washing the hose out lessens the chance of diesel on the road if the rain overflows the catch tanks

We used to carry 98 on it's own in NZ as it was stored at Wellington or Tauranga in the north island so it was along way to transport it and we just used to split a load between 2 stations and therefore very little cross contamination

All the compartments in the tanker all carry all types of fuel during the course of a day anyway no dedicated segregation of compartments toproduct

In my WRX I used to get really bad knock from caltex 98 during the summer OKish in the winter 11- 12L/ 100km's

BP 98 was really good all year round even at 18psi boost pressure 10 L / 100kms all day everyday

Shell V Power was terrible giving 13-16 L / 100km's also makes the bandit cough and splutter when cold while the other 2 do not display this

I will only use 95 and up as we used to call 91 jungle juice ( NZ version of Cottee's cordial )

A little bit of waste product ( Resettled slops ) may get blended into petrol on the odd occasion and it usually goes into the fastest moving product

It's not rocket science as to what that is

And in NZ Shell,Caltex,Bp,Mobil tankers all share fuel from the same bulk tanks with the difference being only the additive added to the bulk line whilst filling the tanker as identified by the drivers swipe card

98 being the exception in NZ anyway until one company runs low and then they buy from each other to keep up supply at the pumps

Not too sure about here but it wouldn't be too different a practice

My Mr's has a 2012 suzuki swift and the bloody thing is averaging 21.2km per liter OR 4.71 ltrs /100km's mixed city and hi-way and it has only done 4500km's and it is not too slow either

Beats my commodore cross 6 AWD 1 tonne ute which does 14-18l/100km's around town and 12-14l/100km's hi-way

interesting read ....thanks

I fill up every week with E10 never had a problem ever, although I'm hard pressed getting more than 240Km out of 17 litres (haven't let it go dry yet) not sure what that actually equates to in litres per 100 but I'd say around 8ltrs - it's my daily steed..