How hard to do a timing chain?

Im thinking about doing the timing chain on my K1 when I do the valve clearances. So how hard is it to do?

Do I have to drop the sump? Or can I do it from the top? Should I change the chain guides in the motor?

I will be checking the chain tensioner at the same time.

I've done heaps of them but not on Bandit yet. No need to take off the sump. The lid has to come off of course and pull the spark plugs out. Line up the timing marks and have a good look at where everything is. Take of the tensioner.The chain won't have a joiner so you'll have to use a chain breaker. Better if you can grind back the heads of the link pins first. Plenty of damp rag around the top of the engine to stop shit from spraying over the camshafts. Once you get the link out, pull the camshafts out. (dont mix them up) Then connect the new chain to the old one and wind it through . When the old chain is out and the new one in put the camshafts in. Align the timing marks to where they were. Tension the camshaft bearing bolts to correct torque. Put the joiner link in (bow end toward the front of engine), or stake the link pin ends(if you don't have a normal joiner link), check the timing, reset the chain tensioner and put it in, rock the crankshaft back and forward slightly a couple of times. Throw everything back on the engine and bike and you're done.

Kaupy1962 wrote:I've done heaps of them but not on Bandit yet. No need to take off the sump. The lid has to come off of course and pull the spark plugs out. Line up the timing marks and have a good look at where everything is. Take of the tensioner.The chain won't have a joiner so you'll have to use a chain breaker. Better if you can grind back the heads of the link pins first. Plenty of damp rag around the top of the engine to stop shit from spraying over the camshafts. Once you get the link out, pull the camshafts out. (dont mix them up) Then connect the new chain to the old one and wind it through . When the old chain is out and the new one in put the camshafts in. Align the timing marks to where they were. Tension the camshaft bearing bolts to correct torque. Put the joiner link in (bow end toward the front of engine), or stake the link pin ends(if you don't have a normal joiner link), check the timing, reset the chain tensioner and put it in, rock the crankshaft back and forward slightly a couple of times. Throw everything back on the engine and bike and you're done.

You need to pull the cams to get the room? That all sounds easy stuff. To connect the old and new chains you just cable tie them?

Ive got a large pair of bole cutters that will see to the old chain.

Good idea to replace the chain followers?

You use the new link to connect the two chains together. It's easier to pull the camshafts out, otherwise you could bend a valve. Carefull not to drop anything into the motor! If you were within riding range I'd do it for you no probs. I'm in Vic although I might have to move interstate after my reply in the paper about fluoros yesterday and then going to remove the back wheel this morning and finding that the axle nut had been undone already.

Kaupy1962 wrote:You use the new link to connect the two chains together. It's easier to pull the camshafts out, otherwise you could bend a valve. Carefull not to drop anything into the motor! If you were within riding range I'd do it for you no probs. I'm in Vic although I might have to move interstate after my reply in the paper about fluoros yesterday and then going to remove the back wheel this morning and finding that the axle nut had been undone already.

You may need some water wings. Im in New Zealand. But thanks for the offer.

Fair call on the cams. Maybe i can fit some better ones at the time.......Lol.

What Kaupy said but it helps if there is two people .Two hands isn't quite enough ,can be done if like me ,you prefer to do this stuff alone .

Maybe i can fit some better ones at the time.......Lol.[/quote]

you can put 1989 1100 or 750 gix cams in,but you need adjustable cam sprockets to adjust the timing

Do not I repeat DO NOT under any circumstance even consider the use of a split spring link. It is absolutely essential to use a solid rivetted joining link to connect the chain. Split links shouldn't be used on drive chains on any bike producing any sort of hp & the idea of using one on a camchain brings me out in a cold sweat. Bolt cutters?? Please!!

Freeway wrote:Do not I repeat DO NOT under any circumstance even consider the use of a split spring link. It is absolutely essential to use a solid rivetted joining link to connect the chain. Split links shouldn't be used on drive chains on any bike producing any sort of hp & the idea of using one on a camchain brings me out in a cold sweat. Bolt cutters?? Please!!

+1 Freeway

Freeway wrote:Do not I repeat DO NOT under any circumstance even consider the use of a split spring link. It is absolutely essential to use a solid rivetted joining link to connect the chain. Split links shouldn't be used on drive chains on any bike producing any sort of hp & the idea of using one on a camchain brings me out in a cold sweat. Bolt cutters?? Please!!

Whats wrong with bolt cutters for breaking the old chain? Will the world explode?

So for using a riveted joining link chain do you need a special tool?

mtbeerwah wrote:

Maybe i can fit some better ones at the time.......Lol.

you can put 1989 1100 or 750 gix cams in,but you need adjustable cam sprockets to adjust the timing[/quote]

If you want the best out of a cam you should use adjustable sprockets, but you can just drop in a cam for a ~5HP increase. I put in a 750 intake cam, never lost any noticeable bottom/midrange and gained a pretty wild top end at 6500rpm+. $100 well spent. A gsxr exhuast cam as well would kill the bottom and give heaps more to the top end. Not what I'm after.

Adjustable cam sprockets will let you tune the power delivery to suit, ie torque or power or best combination of both, not just on new cams but to squeeze the best out of your stock cams.

Seriously the best advice I can give you is BUY A HAYNES MANUAL. $35-$50 delivered on evilbay. It will set out all of these jobs clearly and show what tools are needed. You can then decide if you are confident enough to tackle it.

rolls wrote:

mtbeerwah wrote:

Maybe i can fit some better ones at the time.......Lol.

you can put 1989 1100 or 750 gix cams in,but you need adjustable cam sprockets to adjust the timing

If you want the best out of a cam you should use adjustable sprockets, but you can just drop in a cam for a ~5HP increase. I put in a 750 intake cam, never lost any noticeable bottom/midrange and gained a pretty wild top end at 6500rpm+. $100 well spent. A gsxr exhuast cam as well would kill the bottom and give heaps more to the top end. Not what I'm after.

Adjustable cam sprockets will let you tune the power delivery to suit, ie torque or power or best combination of both, not just on new cams but to squeeze the best out of your stock cams.

Seriously the best advice I can give you is BUY A HAYNES MANUAL. $35-$50 delivered on evilbay. It will set out all of these jobs clearly and show what tools are needed. You can then decide if you are confident enough to tackle it.



[/quote]

Im happy to do the job and I have the Suzuki manual. Im not sure if the motors been played with as it goes great. So probably will leave it as it is for the moment. Ive dialed cams when building car motors years ago.

Is there a way when I open her up to see what the cam it has is?

apart from measuring them, i`ve got brand new in the box 1989 GSXR1100 IN/EX cams, and i`ve got a set of used Bandit cams sitting in front of me,and as marked ,it goes like this;


Bandit.

27A....... R6....................EX.............R6.

IN...................................27A.

B..........9.......................B...............P.

read down the page,not across!!



GSXR.

27A.......R6....................EX..........R5.


IN................................. 27A.


L.........1.......................D............M.

mtbeerwah wrote:apart from measuring them, i`ve got brand new in the box 1989 GSXR1100 IN/EX cams, and i`ve got a set of used Bandit cams sitting in front of me,and as marked ,it goes like this;


Bandit.

27A. R6. EX. R6.

IN. 27A.

B. 9. B. P.



GSXR.

27A. R6. EX. R5.


IN. 27A.


L. 1. D. M.

Thanks for that. It will be interesting to see what I have but probably stock. People see to say use GSXR750 cams, are the 1100 ones the same?

the 89-90 750 had higher lift cams with a high compression head,(small chamber)known as the "DOT HEAD"
the 1100 was more mild,but still a good cam.

to be honest,i`d doubt yours would be touched,but you never know!

by the way,when i posted that info,it came out different than how i wrote it,don`t know why,anyway,read down the page,not across

mtbeerwah wrote:the 89-90 750 had higher lift cams with a high compression head,(small chamber)known as the "DOT HEAD"
the 1100 was more mild,but still a good cam.

to be honest,i`d doubt yours would be touched,but you never know!

by the way,when i posted that info,it came out different than how i wrote it,don`t know why,anyway,read down the page,not across

Well my bikes got a Hyabusa back shock, forks been played with, cap screws on all the motor(not just the side plates), swapped out bars, every bolt ive had off has had copper grease on it, braded lines etc. So who knows?

But will do the cam chain. Ive found a local place that sells the rivet tool for the cam chain so will slowly get parts/tools to do it. No hurry.

Just realized I need to make a map holder and some plates for holding panniers first anyway.

do you know if your bikes been jetted or stock?,cause you need to do this if you`ve got different cams in.

take out your cam tensioner to see where your at in terms of stretch on your chain!

mtbeerwah wrote:do you know if your bikes been jetted or stock?,cause you need to do this if you`ve got different cams in.

Not sure but it has a scorpion can and it goes like hell. Only part Im having trouble with is just above idle but that could be carb balance. Im going to get a balance kit. None of the flat spots people talk of.

The other week I went out with a mate on a GSX750. We were on a straight bit of road for a bit and opened it up a bit. After he said he couldnt keep up and was reving out. I was short shifting at 5k. So its got some wally. Its no race machine but goes well.

But who knows? When I do the cam chain the carbs will get a rebuild to so I will see.

mtbeerwah wrote:

take out your cam tensioner to see where your at in terms of stretch on your chain!

Good idea. But it only rattles a bit on cold start up, not when running hot. But I will be doing it soon.

NZspokes wrote:

Freeway wrote:Do not I repeat DO NOT under any circumstance even consider the use of a split spring link. It is absolutely essential to use a solid rivetted joining link to connect the chain. Split links shouldn't be used on drive chains on any bike producing any sort of hp & the idea of using one on a camchain brings me out in a cold sweat. Bolt cutters?? Please!!

Whats wrong with bolt cutters for breaking the old chain? Will the world explode?

So for using a riveted joining link chain do you need a special tool?

You don't need a special tool, but you will need someone to hold a solid hammer on one side off the link so that you stake the other side. I always use a small cold chisel and gently tap it until I get the desired effect. (don't hit it too hard or you'll chip a piece off)[img][/img]You only need a cross on each pin deep enough to spread the sides. Otherwise you can peen the edges over gently with a Ballpien hammer.

Kaupy1962 wrote:

NZspokes wrote:

Freeway wrote:Do not I repeat DO NOT under any circumstance even consider the use of a split spring link. It is absolutely essential to use a solid rivetted joining link to connect the chain. Split links shouldn't be used on drive chains on any bike producing any sort of hp & the idea of using one on a camchain brings me out in a cold sweat. Bolt cutters?? Please!!

Whats wrong with bolt cutters for breaking the old chain? Will the world explode?

So for using a riveted joining link chain do you need a special tool?

You don't need a special tool, but you will need someone to hold a solid hammer on one side off the link so that you stake the other side. I always use a small cold chisel and gently tap it until I get the desired effect. (don't hit it too hard or you'll chip a piece off)[img][/img]You only need a cross on each pin deep enough to spread the sides. Otherwise you can peen the edges over gently with a Ballpien hammer.

Oh thats easy. Im a bicycle mechanic as one of my trades so ive got stacks of different bike chain tools. I will just get the chain and see what fits. Cheers


But on another note, I seem to have fixed her just off idle surging. Dealer said it was a standard thing for a Bandit with a scorpion pipe. So this morning I read through this link again as its helped me in the past, http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html .

So half turn out of mixture screw her idle speed up and the jerkyness just on throttle seems to have gone. Only driveway test as on daddy duty but happy so far. Made a screw driver for it by putting a screwdriver fitting in a socket. I drilled a hole in it and hammered in an old allen key. Works great.

I had my screws set at 4 turns out on my 04 carby model & that seemed to be about right for my bike (megacycle exhaust) factory setting is 3 turns out

paul wrote:I had my screws set at 4 turns out on my 04 carby model & that seemed to be about right for my bike (megacycle exhaust) factory setting is 3 turns out

Mines about 4.5 turns. Probably need to go up a jet size.