No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
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BanditDave
truck
6 posters
Page 1 of 1
No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
G’day fellow bandit lovers, I have a problem with my beloved 97 model 1200 and I am at my wits end trying to solve it.
Bottom line, I have no spark on any plugs. Might also have a fuel issue but it’s the lack of spark that is doing my head in.
The bike has always run faultlessly but needed a clean up so I took it off the road for a while to detail it and paint wheels etc.
I was starting and riding it regularly while this went on so it kept the thing alive no problem. Then one day it refused to start.
I took out the plugs to see if they were wet and they were not so maybe the fuel is not getting through but the real confusion is why I have no spark. I was getting a weak spark from number 2 until the plug lead fell out of the plug cap which I fixed up.
It almost fired up but nothing. Tried again and got a massive backfire out the pipe which is normal for this bike so I guess some fuel got in there.
But no start. So I took out all the plugs, cleaned them and tried to get a spark out of them by grounding on the exposed metal part of rocker cover. Nothing from any of the plugs.
I checked the coil primary and secondary resistances and they are within specifications. Checked the pulse generator resistance and again its in the right range. I checked the orange and black/white wires that feed the coils while cranking and they are getting power as indicated by the test light flashing on and off. So why no spark?
I might add that while I am cranking the thing, I have a fully charged car battery jumping the standard battery so she cranks over fast but refuses to even try and start or provide a spark.
Cant understand it, I did nothing to mess with the electricals and uit ran fine a few days earlier. I don’t have a spare CDI to check it with but why would it suddenly die anyway?
Before I call out a mobile mechanic and pay him to diagnose it I want to do all I can first.
Please, please can anybody give me more suggestions?
Thanks
Martin
Bottom line, I have no spark on any plugs. Might also have a fuel issue but it’s the lack of spark that is doing my head in.
The bike has always run faultlessly but needed a clean up so I took it off the road for a while to detail it and paint wheels etc.
I was starting and riding it regularly while this went on so it kept the thing alive no problem. Then one day it refused to start.
I took out the plugs to see if they were wet and they were not so maybe the fuel is not getting through but the real confusion is why I have no spark. I was getting a weak spark from number 2 until the plug lead fell out of the plug cap which I fixed up.
It almost fired up but nothing. Tried again and got a massive backfire out the pipe which is normal for this bike so I guess some fuel got in there.
But no start. So I took out all the plugs, cleaned them and tried to get a spark out of them by grounding on the exposed metal part of rocker cover. Nothing from any of the plugs.
I checked the coil primary and secondary resistances and they are within specifications. Checked the pulse generator resistance and again its in the right range. I checked the orange and black/white wires that feed the coils while cranking and they are getting power as indicated by the test light flashing on and off. So why no spark?
I might add that while I am cranking the thing, I have a fully charged car battery jumping the standard battery so she cranks over fast but refuses to even try and start or provide a spark.
Cant understand it, I did nothing to mess with the electricals and uit ran fine a few days earlier. I don’t have a spare CDI to check it with but why would it suddenly die anyway?
Before I call out a mobile mechanic and pay him to diagnose it I want to do all I can first.
Please, please can anybody give me more suggestions?
Thanks
Martin
Last edited by The Man in The Street on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
Can't help with any mechanical advice. Mobile mechanic sounds like it might hurt.
I've got an old 02 getting up in KLMs but I can't remember anything besides the 2-3 flat batteries where she's ever let me down when I hit the go button
I've got an old 02 getting up in KLMs but I can't remember anything besides the 2-3 flat batteries where she's ever let me down when I hit the go button
truck- Posts : 697
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 58
Location : Queensland Proud!!
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
If there was a way to test the CDI without buying a new or used one, I'd love to know about it.
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
It's many years since I owned a Bandit but my advice is as follows.
Firstly, don't blame the most expensive component especially as you haven't got a spare one. I think Murphy's Law covers this topic.
I have had a look at my VStrom manual which I think is very similar to the Bandit, well near enough anyway.
Your statement
I checked the orange and black/white wires that feed the coils while cranking and they are getting power as indicated by the test light flashing on and off.
It is my understanding that one side of the ignition coil is connected to +12volts via the ignition switch etc. the other side comes from the ECM and is a 150volt DC pulse. This is not something that you could measure with a digital multimeter or test lamp.
I consider it is important to confirm the +12volt side of the coil before going any further.
I think it is possible to measure this voltage pulse by wiring an integrator circuit between the wire and your multimeter. An integrator circuit can be as simple as a resistor/capacitor combination. Google should provide you with some suitable values plus how to connect it. Jaycar should have the components.
With it all connected and the engine cranking you should measure a DC voltage probably not 150volts but considerably higher than 12volts, my guess is somewhere in the range of 50volts to 100volts.
Good luck
Firstly, don't blame the most expensive component especially as you haven't got a spare one. I think Murphy's Law covers this topic.
I have had a look at my VStrom manual which I think is very similar to the Bandit, well near enough anyway.
Your statement
I checked the orange and black/white wires that feed the coils while cranking and they are getting power as indicated by the test light flashing on and off.
It is my understanding that one side of the ignition coil is connected to +12volts via the ignition switch etc. the other side comes from the ECM and is a 150volt DC pulse. This is not something that you could measure with a digital multimeter or test lamp.
I consider it is important to confirm the +12volt side of the coil before going any further.
I think it is possible to measure this voltage pulse by wiring an integrator circuit between the wire and your multimeter. An integrator circuit can be as simple as a resistor/capacitor combination. Google should provide you with some suitable values plus how to connect it. Jaycar should have the components.
With it all connected and the engine cranking you should measure a DC voltage probably not 150volts but considerably higher than 12volts, my guess is somewhere in the range of 50volts to 100volts.
Good luck
_________________
BanditDave
Legana, Tasmania
Tasmania, beautiful one day, perfect the next
BanditDave- Posts : 917
Join date : 2011-07-24
Age : 73
Location : Tasmania, beautiful one day, perfect the next!
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
Take the plug caps off and rest leads 10mm from head , press starter , what happens . ????
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
Nothing happens. The engine cranks over.
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
No spark jumping from end of leads to head . on any . ? Send me you mobile no on messages can you
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
The end of the leads is buried a couple of cm inside the plug cap. No spark is gonna jump that far. I tested it with plugs connected and sitting on the head and no spark out of them.
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
That does not tell us what we need to know . Remove all plugs from head and put on the bench . Remove one plug cap from the lead . They simply unscrew , or just hold the lead and and pull plug cap . Place the lead near the head (no cap one ),10mm away is good . Watch the end of it and press starter .
What do you see ? Report back .
What do you see ? Report back .
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
I'm keen to hear what the problem was too from the man in the street.
truck- Posts : 697
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 58
Location : Queensland Proud!!
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
I had the same problem yesterday . The wire connecting to the pulse sender had broken off . It looked ok because it stayed in place . It even ran at times due to it touching but other times the connection wasn't enough . Soldered it back on ,all good .
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
Sorry for the delay guys, been working 70 hour weeks at work and no time to play with the bike until today.
Gus, and others thanks heaps for your suggestions so far, really appreciate it.
So I did what you said and took out all plugs and took the plug caps off number 1 and 4 as they are easier to reach and the other two are quite short already.
Held the leads to the block and cranked it and got a nice white spark ! Yee ha ! I checked the resistance of both plug caps and they show 13K ohms if that means anything.
Not a big fan of the whole screw them in to the leads business and hope for the best but I guess it works. So I have a spark but why would all the plug caps die? The plugs themselves are fine and not all that old. I cleaned them. Like I said, the bike was running fine a day before it started to not run at all....
Gus, and others thanks heaps for your suggestions so far, really appreciate it.
So I did what you said and took out all plugs and took the plug caps off number 1 and 4 as they are easier to reach and the other two are quite short already.
Held the leads to the block and cranked it and got a nice white spark ! Yee ha ! I checked the resistance of both plug caps and they show 13K ohms if that means anything.
Not a big fan of the whole screw them in to the leads business and hope for the best but I guess it works. So I have a spark but why would all the plug caps die? The plugs themselves are fine and not all that old. I cleaned them. Like I said, the bike was running fine a day before it started to not run at all....
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
. Buy 4 new plugs ,don't bother with the expensive ones . $7 ones are fine . Ill bet your caps are fine too . Id say the plugs got contaminated with some shitty fuel . Cleaning with a wire brush doesn't do the job properly . You may get a spark on the head but they wont spark screwed in .Test for spark on 2 and 3 as before while tank is off .. No one has played with the air -fuel screws have they 2 turns out +- not 6
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
Gus is spot on, plugs that spark at atmospheric pressure may not spark under compression
It's alive !
I finally got it to start. Told the thing if it didn't play ball, it would be replaced with a Honda and sent to a wreckers !
But seriously, I took out the plugs for the tenth time and checked them to see if they sparked. Weak or no spark was the result. I cleaned them with carby cleaner and blew them out with compressed air and not much change in their performance. So I decided that maybe all this cranking had flooded the cylinders and it would never start that way. So I blew a bit of air down the plug holes and let the thing sit for a couple of hours with the plugs out while the battery charger did its thing again.
Put the clean dry plugs in a clean dry cylinder head, full choke as usual and she kicked into life after a few goes. I knew it was firing by the huge backfire from the pipe so I knew I was getting fuel and spark . Just a bit too much fuel it seems. Now before I can put it all back together I need a new air filter element which is filthy and I need to work out why the ABS light on the dash is flashing. It's never done that before but then I have never had the calipers off before either. I'd love to remove the whole system but its big and invasive and takes up a bit of real estate on the bike. Sits under the seat and battery and has steel brake lines running the length of the bike etc. It's a mess but I will leave it there and bleed the thing as best as I can with the Mityvac pump.
I was going to buy new spark plugs but 60 buck a set is a bit rude and the old ones are not that old anyway.
I'm just happy it runs and I can look for somebody to blue slip it and get it back on the road for summer.
Once again, thanks to Gus and all you guys for your suggestions and help.
But seriously, I took out the plugs for the tenth time and checked them to see if they sparked. Weak or no spark was the result. I cleaned them with carby cleaner and blew them out with compressed air and not much change in their performance. So I decided that maybe all this cranking had flooded the cylinders and it would never start that way. So I blew a bit of air down the plug holes and let the thing sit for a couple of hours with the plugs out while the battery charger did its thing again.
Put the clean dry plugs in a clean dry cylinder head, full choke as usual and she kicked into life after a few goes. I knew it was firing by the huge backfire from the pipe so I knew I was getting fuel and spark . Just a bit too much fuel it seems. Now before I can put it all back together I need a new air filter element which is filthy and I need to work out why the ABS light on the dash is flashing. It's never done that before but then I have never had the calipers off before either. I'd love to remove the whole system but its big and invasive and takes up a bit of real estate on the bike. Sits under the seat and battery and has steel brake lines running the length of the bike etc. It's a mess but I will leave it there and bleed the thing as best as I can with the Mityvac pump.
I was going to buy new spark plugs but 60 buck a set is a bit rude and the old ones are not that old anyway.
I'm just happy it runs and I can look for somebody to blue slip it and get it back on the road for summer.
Once again, thanks to Gus and all you guys for your suggestions and help.
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
A backfire is a sign the plugs are no good . It might start today but tomorrow will be another story . Buy the equivalent $7 plugs . They are just as good .
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
Who sells $7 plugs? The best price I can find even online is 15 buck each which is a joke.
It's always backfired violently from a cold start if I give it choke and a bit of throttle. Scares the hell out of people when it does it. The exhaust has no baffle so its loud and beautiful.
It's always backfired violently from a cold start if I give it choke and a bit of throttle. Scares the hell out of people when it does it. The exhaust has no baffle so its loud and beautiful.
The Man in The Street- Posts : 10
Join date : 2019-06-29
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
I have posted this before on this forum, buy your plugs(in bulk) from Rockauto in the States and you'll make out like a Bandit
I bought 25 plugs a couple of days ago and it cost me $114aud, 8 of the plugs are NGK racing plugs that retail out here for around $25 each.
Example: I can buy 8 plugs(R5671A-7) for my car from Suoercheapauto for $84aud, or I can land the same ones here from Rockauto for $30aud......only drawback is you'll have to wait a week for them. But at that price you might as well buy 3 sets
Well done on sorting your bike
I bought 25 plugs a couple of days ago and it cost me $114aud, 8 of the plugs are NGK racing plugs that retail out here for around $25 each.
Example: I can buy 8 plugs(R5671A-7) for my car from Suoercheapauto for $84aud, or I can land the same ones here from Rockauto for $30aud......only drawback is you'll have to wait a week for them. But at that price you might as well buy 3 sets
Well done on sorting your bike
rodent4- Posts : 451
Join date : 2012-12-27
Location : Sunbury
Re: No spark on an early 1200 and I have tried almost everything. ***FIXED IT !***
If you go to your car and remove the muffler , it will be every loud. It will loose power run like crap but yes, it will be loud . You will also piss off lots of people who will complain about loud cars and bikes . In return the police will have a blitz on vehicles and it will be all your fault .
Could be the reason your having plug problems though .
Example
We lived on a well known (OBI OBI )weekend motorcycle loop . 5 acreas , nothing flash but bloody nice . We had it up for sale for $350,000 .
The real estate agent was showing it to some clients and all was going well . They commented was a beautiful spot it was .Next minute a group of loud Harleys went buy . The lady looked at her partner and said " I couldn't live with THAT " and left . No wonder the town hated motorcycles .
On A lighter note .
A Harley pulled up in town ,giving it a rev to announce his arrival . A 80 yo local lady walked up and said '' your dick wont grow any bigger doing THAT "
, I think I did wet myself laughing .
Could be the reason your having plug problems though .
Example
We lived on a well known (OBI OBI )weekend motorcycle loop . 5 acreas , nothing flash but bloody nice . We had it up for sale for $350,000 .
The real estate agent was showing it to some clients and all was going well . They commented was a beautiful spot it was .Next minute a group of loud Harleys went buy . The lady looked at her partner and said " I couldn't live with THAT " and left . No wonder the town hated motorcycles .
On A lighter note .
A Harley pulled up in town ,giving it a rev to announce his arrival . A 80 yo local lady walked up and said '' your dick wont grow any bigger doing THAT "
, I think I did wet myself laughing .
gus- Posts : 6176
Join date : 2010-11-23
Age : 73
Location : Cygnet ,Tasmania
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