O2 sensor

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O2 sensor

Post  steve61 on Mon 16 Apr 2018, 4:50 pm

Been doing a bit of looking around on the site , bikes have changed a wee tad in 20 years , like sensors , cats etc , so iam i right in deducing that by getting an o2 sensor delete , that the bike will run on preprogramed maps , and actually run better ?
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  reddog on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 7:55 am

Are you going an aftermarket fuel controller or are you getting the ecu flashed?
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Ucu flash

Post  steve61 on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 6:02 pm

i probably would prefer the ecu flash , does anyone know a lace that does quality work here in vic ?
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  barry_mcki on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 7:36 pm

I totally agree with a re-flash for the racing set, but I'm in two minds about the re-flash for a street bike.  

It does give you a heap more options to change than a piggy-back after-market fuel controller, but it's a one shot deal.  I see it that if something isn't right its not just a plug in the laptop and change, it's a fair bit of stuffing around.  Do you have a spare ECU to swap to with your main is being upgraded, or are you up on chocks as it is sent away ?

If you're after great track times for a particular closed circuit run for a particular time of day, season of the year, elevation above sea level and have the exact same bike as that from what the flash was designed off,with same engine tolerances, same rider weight, same fuel type, etc etc etc... see where I'm going with this ?

A re-flash is a great option, but will it be right straight out of the packet ? Personally I've never written any software for anything whether it was machine language, a WP macro or an app setup for an online store, where I got the programming right first go.  Through in a bunch of different end users who all have there own unique requirements and things become a nightmare.  

But I might be talking out my butt and all the issues may have been sorted, I've never gone down the re-flash route on a bike ECU, there are heaps of riders even on here that swear by it.  For me my aftermarket ECU provides more than enough extra grunt so get me into real trouble.

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ECU flash

Post  steve61 on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 8:10 pm

Not being in the know in recent bike history , however being pretty proficient in the 4x4 diesel game , i well know that a good tuner can flash better and much safer than after market add on boxes , hence my thinking that there must be someone around that specializes in this , and also there must be basic ecu sets ie headers , airbox , injector mod flashes that they keep as baseline flashes
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Post  steve61 on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 8:13 pm

I don't know , maybe iam jumping the gun , but i came off a lifetime of 130 PLUS HP GSXR's and the like , i might be happy with 100 hp of grand daddy grunt
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  barry_mcki on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 8:31 pm

Getting 130hp out of a 1250 is not that unreasonable, mines 125.6 with a very nice 13:1 AFR across the complete rev band.  Simple mods to intake and exhaust and a PC-V, but I'm also lugging up to 300kg of extra weight when fully kitted out so I'm not turning any fast times.

Do a search on here for either setup, there a ton of info from those that have done both upgrade paths (Re-flash or ECU Piggy-back).

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ECU flash

Post  steve61 on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 10:03 pm

PTR  is just up the road from me and they have a ride in ride out 130 hp plus upgrade for around 3 k , which might sound expensive , but really is not , considering a 4x4 diesel remap and dyno will cost you 1500 with no parts , and the PTR work consists of a Yoshi can , dynojet commander , Yoshi cams , injector mods , airbox modsand filter  and a dyno tune
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  barry_mcki on Wed 18 Apr 2018, 8:13 am

I was going to say that sounds expensive considering I'm 4.4hp short without the cams.  But by the time I add up the parts and dyno tune I've paid for, it's probably close to the mark. I did notice that you hadn't mention headers.  I've got Arrow's on mine, but they're all better (and lighter) than the original dual walled pipes.

It is a never ending game chasing more power, eventually you look back at what you've spent and how much you've changed the original bike that it seems it would have been cheaper to have bought that 'Busa in the first place.  My excuse was that I needed the extra grunt for the heavy rig I've got, the smile it puts on my face is just a coincidence  Cool

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ECU flash

Post  steve61 on Wed 18 Apr 2018, 8:59 am

@barry_mcki wrote:I was going to say that sounds expensive considering I'm 4.4hp short without the cams.  But by the time I add up the parts and dyno tune I've paid for, it's probably close to the mark. I did notice that you hadn't mention headers.  I've got Arrow's on mine, but they're all better (and lighter) than the original dual walled pipes.

It is a never ending game chasing more power, eventually you look back at what you've spent and how much you've changed the original bike that it seems it would have been cheaper to have bought that 'Busa in the first place.  My excuse was that I needed the extra grunt for the heavy rig I've got, the smile it puts on my face is just a coincidence  Cool
The sample dyno graph they supply says 137 hp , plus or minus , but yes its not cheap , theres a few reasons i didn't choose a bussa , foremost being i have medical conditions that would stop me riding bikes like that these days , second my misses wants to be involved as well 
I was looking at the Delkevic headers , that look quite good for the money , $ 450.00 ish , or their full system for around 700 , i doubt muffler tech has changed much in 20 years , but anyhow we will see as i mentioned above , my nuts have probably shrunk through the years and i wont want or need the power , it at this point is all a mind exercise
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  opa on Wed 18 Apr 2018, 12:42 pm

@steve61 wrote:Been doing a bit of looking around on the site , bikes have changed a wee tad in 20 years , like sensors , cats etc , so iam i right in deducing that by getting an o2 sensor delete , that the bike will run on preprogramed maps , and actually run better ?
Hi Steve,  I installed an O2 sensor eliminator on my 2010 1250 and that change alone has improved the way the bike runs, out of sight!  So much better I don't feel the need to do any further mods to the engine, focused for now on the suspension and brakes.
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  reddog on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 8:18 am

Exhaust and headers $1000
Power commander $300
Air box mod $0
Air filter $50
Secondary throttle body removal $15 for jis screw drivers
Dyno tune $400
17 tooth sprocket $30

130hp/97ftlb of torque

Satisfaction of doing it myself Smile


I'd recommend suspension modifications btw. The stock front end is way too soft
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  barry_mcki on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 8:43 am

My costs were about the same, paid a bit more for the PC-V as I got the Auto-Tune option (which I've never turned on  Embarassed  ).  The slight difference in output figures is easily explained within the tolerance of two different dyno.  Also my dyno cost was more as we had to use (and pay for) a car dyno in another shop due to the sidecar not fitting on the bike dyno ramps, this meant more setup time and paying for the 2nd dyno's time and operator.

So that leaves about $1,000 for the cams, so I suppose that is probably right for a shop to strip, supply, and install.  However the extra hp you get for that $1,000 doesn't seem to be value for money.

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O2 sensor

Post  steve61 on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 10:52 am

Seems interesting the results that OPA got from just doing the o2 sensor though , anyone any thoughts ?
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  barry_mcki on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 11:58 pm

I'd say he means that it runs smoother, no flat spots or surging. 

The O2 bypass tells the ECU that the exhaust gasses are at a steady figure, so there is no need to add (or subtract) more fuel.

There is a couple of things you can do very cheaply to make the bike run better, they're all been covered on here so just use the SEARCH function above, look for threads on O2 bypass, throttle body sync, secondary butterfly removal, airbox lid opening, etc.

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Re: O2 sensor

Post  Bandakias on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 2:44 pm

@barry_mcki wrote:My costs were about the same, paid a bit more for the PC-V as I got the Auto-Tune option (which I've never turned on  Embarassed  ).  The slight difference in output figures is easily explained within the tolerance of two different dyno.  Also my dyno cost was more as we had to use (and pay for) a car dyno in another shop due to the sidecar not fitting on the bike dyno ramps, this meant more setup time and paying for the 2nd dyno's time and operator.

So that leaves about $1,000 for the cams, so I suppose that is probably right for a shop to strip, supply, and install.  However the extra hp you get for that $1,000 doesn't seem to be value for money.
 I do not know how much gain you get by just dropping in  yoshi cams, but yoshi cams with more compression does huge difference. I went from 120 hp to 143 hp. Stock cams are tiny.

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Re: O2 sensor

Post  Bill & Ted on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 3:18 pm

The PTR tune that the OP is talking about is with the stock headers and an R77 Yosh slipon, so who knows how much more could be gained with aftermarket headers.
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  gus on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 6:44 pm

Gains don't come without the expense of something else .If Suzuki could add and extra 20hp easily ,don't you think they would have done it .?
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  reddog on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 8:33 pm

You'd normally lose torque, which is what makes the bandit a good Street Bike. It's no race bike
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Re: O2 sensor

Post  Bandakias on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 9:55 pm

@gus wrote:Gains don't come without the expense of something else .If Suzuki could add and extra 20hp easily ,don't you think they would have done it .?

As you know suzuki tried to keep the hp below 100hp. This is done for some Power restriction in some countries as there are two bike categories, below 100hp and above 100hp. They have restricted the  engine and even so it was not enough and above the 7000 rpm they did the trick with closing the secondaries to achive less than 100hp, Maybe the only bike in the world Rolling Eyes
@reddog wrote:You'd normally lose torque, which is what makes the bandit a good Street Bike. It's no race bike
 
With yoshi cams and more compression there is no comparison from idle to rev limiter. Much more power everywhere from stock engine.

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Re: O2 sensor

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