E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:40 am

So awaiting my dale walker stage 2 kit and cant help but research.

What will be the best fuel for maximum performance without potential risk of breaking something.

After speaking to Dale he mentioned that i should run the equivalent to 87 octane us. Now as far as i know we only have 91 95 and 98. And e85 some places have 100.

What do you fill your bike with and has anyone experimented with E85? Is it the equivalent to 87 us?

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:53 am

After a breakthrough in my researching skills i found

87 us is 91 aus
91 us is 95 aus

But what is best to use? Ive only ever run 98 premium in every car ive ever owned i run it in my mowers in my boat and my golf buggy.

Hammy Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:33 am

Pretty sure the majority use 95. If you can get it ! The Bandit, and most other bikes, will run fine on 91 as well. Stay well clear of that 10plus ethanol stuff. I've heard that the 98 has a cleaning agent in as well. Not sure if that is true. Sometimes I pamper my girl and give her a drink of the 98.

madmax Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:37 am

E85 is 85% ethanol and has nothing to do with the octane rating.

Suzuki don't recommend ethanol based fuels higher than 10%

I usually use 95Ron where its available, if not then 98 then 91.

The book says 91 or higher

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:45 am

Thought as much ive always run 98. Would it be safe to keep running 98? I just want what's best for the bike

Hammy Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:49 am

mstrrab1992 wrote:Thought as much ive always run 98. Would it be safe to keep running 98? I just want what's best for the bike

You may find it will run just as good on the 95, and save you some dollars. Try both and see if you can feel a difference.

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:56 am

Cool beans thanks guys Very Happy

hopefully not too long of a wait till i get the stage 2 kit. Included tuner 02 bypass k&n filter pair valve removal kit. 650 from the states. Hopefully money well spent. Ive already got the yoshi slip on and secondaries removed and will be opening up the air box after i install in tuner.

2wheelsagain Wed 22 Apr 2015, 10:02 am

mstrrab1992 wrote:After a breakthrough in my researching skills i found

87 us is 91 aus
91 us is 95 aus

But what is best to use? Ive only ever run 98 premium in every car ive ever owned i run it in my mowers in my boat and my golf buggy.

Some people like wasting mone but if it makes you feel better go for it.

talon440 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 2:38 pm

mstrrab1992 wrote:So awaiting my dale walker stage 2 kit and cant help but research.

What will be the best fuel for maximum performance without potential risk of breaking something.

After speaking to Dale he mentioned that i should run the equivalent to 87 octane us. Now as far as i know we only have 91 95 and 98. And e85 some places have 100.

What do you fill your bike with and has anyone experimented with E85? Is it the equivalent to 87 us?

mstrrab 1992
just finished fitting Dales stage 2 kit and delkevic headers, very easy install with both, Dales instructions are excellent "what a difference" smooth with plenty of power gain through whole rev range and very little difference to fuel economy so you should be happy, have always used 98 if i cant get that 95

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 2:39 pm

Thanks talon. I havent got headers just yet but will be ordering soon

TropoBone Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:00 pm

I'm inclined to agree with 2wheelsagain, using a higher RON when you've helped your engine 'breathe' better but kept the same pistons, e.g. compression ratio, might be like flushing your money down a ....
E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 3738661418

E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 3738661418

(I've always wanted to use that smiley!)

Use a lower RON than recommended by Suzuki and you risk detonation, or 'knocking.' Not good for the old girl.

Use a the recommended fuel or higher, and you won't have that problem. It is not unsafe. It might yield 'bang-per-litre'. But it is definitely a case of diminishing returns.

Lets say that going from 91 RON to 95 gives us an approximate increase of 4% in calorific value (bang-per-litre) and 91 to 98 gives about 9%.

The price board at the BP across the road from me says:
ULP (91) = 132.9 cents/litre
PULP 95 = 143.9 which is 8.3% more than ULP
PULP 98 = 162.9 which is 22.6% more than ULP!

So going from ULP to PULP 95 costs roughly 8% more for a theoretical 4% gain in 'bang-per-litre'
And PULP 98 costs roughly 23% more for a theoretical 9% gain in 'bang-per-litre.'

If Dale says 87 US, and 87 US = 91 RON then I'd be buying aussie standard ULP and putting the savings toward the trip/track day/next farkle E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 959052286

E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 959052286

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:18 pm

I wish there was a smiley for i read all that and understood most of it but it went all over the top of my head. Hahahaha

talon440 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:21 pm

TropoBone wrote:I'm inclined to agree with 2wheelsagain, using a higher RON when you've helped your engine 'breathe' better but kept the same pistons, e.g. compression ratio, might be like flushing your money down a ....

(I've always wanted to use that smiley!)

Use a lower RON than recommended by Suzuki and you risk detonation, or 'knocking.' Not good for the old girl.

Use a the recommended fuel or higher, and you won't have that problem. It is not unsafe. It might yield 'bang-per-litre'. But it is definitely a case of diminishing returns.

Lets say that going from 91 RON to 95 gives us an approximate increase of 4% in calorific value (bang-per-litre) and 91 to 98 gives about 9%.

The price board at the BP across the road from me says:
ULP (91) = 132.9 cents/litre
PULP 95 = 143.9 which is 8.3% more than ULP
PULP 98 = 162.9 which is 22.6% more than ULP!

So going from ULP to PULP 95 costs roughly 8% more for a theoretical 4% gain in 'bang-per-litre'
And PULP 98 costs roughly 23% more for a theoretical 9% gain in 'bang-per-litre.'

If Dale says 87 US, and 87 US = 91 RON then I'd be buying aussie standard ULP and putting the savings toward the trip/track day/next farkle

A loooong time ago I used to fly piston engined aeroplanes for commercial operators -- and they focussed on bang per buck, big time.
AVGAS for aero engines could be had in 130 octane and 100LL ('low lead').
That nominal "30%" diff in octane ratings resulted in SFA difference in actual operation.

However, it never hurt.

As im getting between 380ks and 400ks from a tank using 98 or 95 i think im saving money and at 62000 ks and no fuel pump problems i think its worth the extra, each to their own i guess E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 959052286

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:27 pm

380-400kms! I seem to only get 220 before ny reserve turns on. But ive worked it out at 5litres per 100 kms?

TropoBone Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:27 pm

Msttrab => lol!

Talon => yes that the fun part, the Bandit is a bang-for-buck machine in standard form - and a fire breather with a few 'investments'

If we were sensible, we would all be on SYMs or in Hyundais. I don't want to live in that world! E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 959052286

Diminishing returns?
I paid $7000 for my Bandit, it goes well and it gets a few looks at the cafe.
My mate Nev paid a bit over $28,000 for his Paningale, I can keep up with him most of the time, and he gets more looks parked at the cafe.
But not FOUR times as many looks!
Cool

mstrrab1992 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:29 pm

Ahahaha so much money you could by 2 bandits for one pannigale!

TropoBone Wed 22 Apr 2015, 7:35 pm

mstrrab1992 wrote:380-400kms! I seem to only get 220 before ny reserve turns on. But ive worked it out at 5litres per 100 kms?

Same here.
I just did a 'bucket list' trip Darwin - Adelaide - east coast back to Darwin.
Fill it to the brim.
Reset Trip A to 0.
Ride.
Little petrol pump starts flashing at about 220km.
Last 'bar' starts flashing as well a bit over 250km.
But I got a pretty consistent 5.1 litres per hundred over the whole 11,800km trip.
Got around 5.5 per hundred while I was enjoying myself Omeo-Khancoban-Cooma-Jindabyne.
Spiked at 6 per hundred when I was bashing into a headwind between Mt Morgan and Barcaldine QLD.
Most I stretched the tank was on the leg into Cloncurry. It read 370km since last fill. Took 19.2 litres into that 20 litre tank!
I have not modded the engine - only farkles are as in my profile.
You will get 300km between fuel stops, guaranteed.
You won't get 400km.

talon440 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:06 pm

TropoBone wrote:
mstrrab1992 wrote:380-400kms! I seem to only get 220 before ny reserve turns on. But ive worked it out at 5litres per 100 kms?
Same here.
I just did a 'bucket list' trip Darwin - Adelaide - east coast back to Darwin.
Fill it to the brim.
Reset Trip A to 0.
Ride.
Little petrol pump starts flashing at about 220km.
Last 'bar' starts flashing as well a bit over 250km.
But I got a pretty consistent 5.1 litres per hundred over the whole 11,800km trip.
Got around 5.5 per hundred while I was enjoying myself Omeo-Khancoban-Cooma-Jindabyne.
Spiked at 6 per hundred when I was bashing into a headwind between Mt Morgan and Barcaldine QLD.
Most I stretched the tank was on the leg into Cloncurry. It read 370km since last fill. Took 19.2 litres into that 20 litre tank!
I have not modded the engine - only farkles are as in my profile.
You will get 300km between fuel stops, guaranteed.
You won't get 400km.

My bike has a 19 litre tank, and cruise on 110 to 120 kph
first bar goes out around 100ks depending on how much i put in
second bar goes out around 180ks
third bar around 270ks
fourth bar out and bowser starts flashing around 320ks
still have 5 litres in tank at that point which could give me another 100ks but i dont push it so at around 350ks will look for servo, but have pushed it to 405ks to get home from trip, still had 2 litres in tank next time i filled it, my fuel consumption is consistant on most trips, varies depending on type of road but will allways get at least 320 to 350 before i look for a servo, thats what a 40 tooth rear sprocket does, another money saving mod

#Tag Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:43 pm

30 secs of Googling:

Practical Motoring:
"Basically, 91RON, 95RON and 98RON relate to the fuel’s resistance to knocking. Meaning that 98RON fuel is only two off pure octane in terms of the compression it can handle before firing, and the two its missing are n-hepathane. This means that unless your car is specifically meant to run on premium unleaded then you’re simply wasting money pumping it into your car if the maker has said normal unleaded (95RON) is fine. Your car’s engine won’t knock because it’s been designed to run on that fuel.
What about marketing claims of premium fuel providing more power? Well, that’s only true, again, if your car’s specified to run on premium unleaded. It means the maker has designed the cylinders to produce more pressure and thus extract more power from the fuel. Sadly, if your car is tuned to run on regular unleaded, then pumping premium into it won’t extract more power."
Drive Avice.com au:
"Here’s the thing: you can put a higher octane fuel in a car than the manufacturer’s requirement. No problem with putting 95 or even 98 in a car designed for 91 – except generally you will be wasting money. Higher octane fuels don’t contain more energy. Octane rating is basically resistance to burning under pressure, allowing higher compression ratios to be used (cylinder pressures, actually). A modern engine designed for 91 will even deliver a very small amount of additional power if fed 95 or 98 because it will advance the timing a little more than with 91. The improvement will be very minor. So minor you probably won’t notice it.
Most engine design experts regard running higher octane fuel in an engine designed for a lower octane fuel as basically a waste of money.
Drive.com.au:
If your car doesn't need to run on premium fuel, it won't hurt to fill it with premium, it'll just cost you more. The most important thing to remember is to ensure your unleaded car is filled with fuel with a RON number equal to or higher than its required minimum, which is usually printed on the inside of the fuel door flap

Chook Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:43 pm

talon440 wrote:
TropoBone wrote:
mstrrab1992 wrote:380-400kms! I seem to only get 220 before ny reserve turns on. But ive worked it out at 5litres per 100 kms?
Same here.
I just did a 'bucket list' trip Darwin - Adelaide - east coast back to Darwin.
Fill it to the brim.
Reset Trip A to 0.
Ride.
Little petrol pump starts flashing at about 220km.
Last 'bar' starts flashing as well a bit over 250km.
But I got a pretty consistent 5.1 litres per hundred over the whole 11,800km trip.
Got around 5.5 per hundred while I was enjoying myself Omeo-Khancoban-Cooma-Jindabyne.
Spiked at 6 per hundred when I was bashing into a headwind between Mt Morgan and Barcaldine QLD.
Most I stretched the tank was on the leg into Cloncurry. It read 370km since last fill. Took 19.2 litres into that 20 litre tank!
I have not modded the engine - only farkles are as in my profile.
You will get 300km between fuel stops, guaranteed.
You won't get 400km.
My bike has a 19 litre tank, and cruise on 110 to 120 kph Mine too
first bar goes out around 100ks depending on how much i put in    Mine too
second bar goes out around 180ks    Mine at about 150
third bar around 270ks    Mine at about 200
fourth bar out and bowser starts flashing around    Mine at about 250, if I fill up then I have about 5 -5 1/2 litres left
still have 5 litres in tank at that point which could give me another 100ks but i dont push it so at around 350ks will look for servo, but have pushed it to 405ks to get home from trip, still had 2 litres in tank next time i filled it, my fuel consumption is consistant on most trips, varies depending on type of road but will allways get at least 320 to 350 before i look for a servo, thats what a 40 tooth rear sprocket does, another money saving mod

#Tag Wed 22 Apr 2015, 8:58 pm

Tropobone, good to see someone who can use a calculator but your calculations are too low.

Australian fuel components are controlled by law. For petrol it allows blends of C6 through to C10 fuels (sextane, heptane, octane, nonane, decane). They all have almost identical calorific contents, they only vary in their octane rating. So - 91, 95 and 98 burnt in the same engine produce the same power (given that engine is tuned for 91 as the Bandit is)
There is a small proviso on 98 - toluene and xylene (from catalytic cracking) can be legally used and they have a 15% higher calorific content than sextane through decane. But good luck finding out from the manufacturers if they are added to their premium fuels - I've tried for many years with no success.
Out of interest ethanol has a RON of 122 but under two thirds the calorific content of petrol. (29700kj/kg vs 47300kj/kg for petrol)

My bike has run perfectly on 91 for 110,000k saving me $1100 over premiums (assuming a 20c/l differential). I would have liked to have spent it on piss but have probably spent it on much more mundane stuff.

"Some people like wasting money but if it makes you feel better go for it." How come the admin can say things distlilled perfectly but I just keep flapping my gums on and on and on?

talon440 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 10:28 pm

#Tag wrote:Tropobone, good to see someone who can use a calculator but your calculations are too low.

Australian fuel components are controlled by law. For petrol it allows blends of C6 through to C10 fuels (sextane, heptane, octane, nonane, decane). They all have almost identical calorific contents, they only vary in their octane rating. So - 91, 95 and 98 burnt in the same engine produce the same power (given that engine is tuned for 91 as the Bandit is)
There is a small proviso on 98 - toluene and xylene (from catalytic cracking) can be legally used and they have a 15% higher calorific content than sextane through decane. But good luck finding out from the manufacturers if they are added to their premium fuels - I've tried for many years with no success.
Out of interest ethanol has a RON of 122 but under two thirds the calorific content of petrol. (29700kj/kg vs 47300kj/kg for petrol)

My bike has run perfectly on 91 for 110,000k saving me $1100 over premiums (assuming a 20c/l differential). I would have liked to have spent it on piss but have probably spent it on much more mundane stuff.

"Some people like wasting money but if it makes you feel better go for it." How come the admin can say things distlilled perfectly but I just keep flapping my gums on and on and on?

Id say the gums are pretty sore after that outburst, whos saying they use 98/95 cause it gives more power, i just like waisting money and it makes me feel better for it, think i got that right

madmax Wed 22 Apr 2015, 10:52 pm

The book says a minimum of 91. I started using 95 because the dealer recommend 95 for all Suzuki injected engines. He didn't explain why.

A few years back I owned an EL fairmont. I was having trouble with rough running so I removed the injectors and had them cleaned. Still it ran rough I took it to a mechanic i know and after he found nothing wrong he told me to run a few tanks of 98 in it. Within 6 weeks It was running smooth again and I switched back to 91. No more problems. There must be some truth in there being cleaners in the premium fuels.
It still didn't help the tea bag filter in the bike though.

Same car, traveling across the Nullabour using 98 (because it was 4c dearer than 91) got some amazing range out of the tank ~1000ks typical. Back in suburbia no noticeable difference in range.

I also store fuel at home. I'm told Premium keeps better.....myth? maybe......

#Tag Wed 22 Apr 2015, 10:53 pm

Quote Talon440:

"Id say the gums are pretty sore after that outburst,"

Nah, there not sore because they're pretty calloused from being flapped a lot.

"whos saying they use 98/95 cause it gives more power" :

Not you.

" i just like waisting money and it makes me feel better for it, think i got that right".

You did get that right, and I, or nobody else, said any different.

The post was addressed to Tropobone, because he was obviously interested in the technicalities, not you

talon440 Wed 22 Apr 2015, 11:08 pm

#Tag wrote:Quote Talon440:

"Id say the gums are pretty sore after that outburst,"

Nah, there not sore because they're pretty calloused from being flapped a lot.

"whos saying they use 98/95 cause it gives more power" :

Not you.

" i just like waisting money and it makes me feel better for it, think i got that right".

You did get that right, and I, or nobody else, said any different.

The post was addressed to Tropobone, because he was obviously interested in the technicalities, not you

At least you got some of that right E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit 959052286

Sponsored content

E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

E85 Fuel dale walker stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re E85 Fuel with Dale Walker stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re E85 with Dale Walker stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re E85 with Dale Walker stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit

Re E85 with Dale Walker stage 2 kit

Re: E85 Fuel with dale walkers stage 2 kit