TB balance/sync

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TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Wed 31 Mar 2010, 9:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Read a post in the 12000 km service that talked about doing the TB's and letting the dealer/mechanic do it. Considering some of the other post in that thread related to costs etc I thought I'd post this up for those interested how to do it. (did a search and couldn't find anything similar - hope I haven't doubled up)
This is on a GSX650F so if you have a S model or neked bandit you can disregard any reference to fairings. The gauges are different also, but the info regarding the readout/display is the same

Disclaimer:
Before I start I have to say that I have taken all care to create this how to but I will not take any responsibility if you decide to use this info to do it yourself and cock it up causing the bike to have to visit a shop for repairs.
If you are not confident - DON'T DO IT

Righto.

First thing to do is to check that the TPS is adjusted correctly.
1. Create a lot of slack in the throttle cable. Your user manual will show you how to do this adjustment
2. Remove the RH side cover and find the dealer plug.


3. Remove the protective cap form the dealer plug and put the bike into dealer mode. I use a split pin (you'll notice I have covered the end of it to reduce the chance of shorts) but you can buy a dealer switch from Suzuki at a price around $30 AUD. NOTE: If the pic below dos not make sence for the pin location please say so and I'll explain it better.


4. Turn on the ignition and the dash should show something like this


You'll notice mine shows a _C00. This indicates my TPS needs adjusting. The following is a 'at home' way to do it but to get it spot on you'll either need to take it to a Suzuki dealer and ask them to do it for you or buy SDS
5. Remove the LH fairing and find the TPS


6. Loosen the TPS (DO NOT remove it from the bike). you'll need a TORX fitting T20H (it's the one with the hole in the middle) and it can be rotated to adjust the reading on the dash. It is a finiky, fiddly prick of a job to get right but in the end you need the dash readout to look like this when you have finished and have tightened the TPS (not to tight only by hand. I use a screwdriver type tool).


Now onto the TB balance.

NOTE: Leave the bike in dealer mode. If you have started here and not done the TPS check/adjust, put the bike into dealer mode as per step 2-3 above.
1. Remove the tank (you user manual should show you how). to expose the inner workings


2. Locate the IAP sensor


You need to unplug this and remove it with the hoses that are attached to it. This is what you are removing


You can just unplug the IAP sensor and disconnect all the hoses from the engine (those small barbs on the engine will become the test points for the balance tool) but I've said to remove it all so it is easier to see what you are doing, that's all
3. Hook up your balancing tool. I use a Morgan carbtune as I find it the easiest to use and there is no maintenance that goes with it. It is up to you what you use tho.
Locate the adjusting screws for each TB. Here is a pic of cylinder 2


and cylinder 3


Use a torch and take your time, you will find them.
4. Make some kind of thing up to hold your tank above the bike so you can access the adjusters while the bike is running. Here is what mine looks like all ready to go. Nothing pretty, but it works and is safe and secure.


5. Hook up the tank and start the bike. You will a code in the dash that is -C013. This is the code for the IAP you disconnected in step 2 and is perfectly normal. You now need to wait until the bike cooling fan kicks in. This ensures your bike is warmed up enough to do the adjustments. I also use a small fan to blow air onto the radiator and help move exhaust fumes out of my shed. I recommend you do this also as it will get quite hot in there.
This is what mine looked like at first start up


and after it was warm


So you can see I needed to do mine.
6. Adjust each adjusting screw (cylinder) to end up looking similar to this. (Mines not spot on as I still need to run the bike in and I'll be doing it again after the first service. It is better than before tho)


A few tips while adjusting.
*Do not make any changes to the adjustment while the fan is running, wait for it to stop.
*Make small adjustments slowly to be more precise.
*Turning the screw in (tightening it) makes the meter rise (increase in vacuum)
*Turning the screw out (loosening it) makes the meter fall (decrease in vacuum)
*Don't turn the screws out (loosen) too far as they will come out
*If you think you have it where you want it, crack the throttle and release it,wait for the engine to stabilize and check the gauge again. This is very important when you are almost finished and happy with the results.
7. Once happy remove the gauges and put your bike back together.

If there is anything you would like clarified please ask and I'll try to explain with a little more detail.

chears


Last edited by dhula on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 1:02 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  reddog on Sun 21 Aug 2011, 7:49 pm

The idea is to synchronise the amount of air entering the intake. Regardless of throttle position, once done it makes the bike much smoother.

I'll add my 2c to the TPS c00 business. If you have a power commander it relies on this being right for fuelling as does the stock computer. If it is off then you are going to have incorrect fuelling for the throttle opening. Thats why it is called a throttle position sensor. It's meant to sense the throttle position so the computer understands how much fuel the bike should have.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Fossil on Sun 21 Aug 2011, 8:35 pm

Thanks reddog - you made sense of the throttle cable slack for me.

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RE: TB Balance/Sync

Post  Kaupy1962 on Mon 22 Aug 2011, 6:46 pm

Haven't done mine yet but will be soon. Got my dealer mode switch and thought i'd plug it in to check the TPS. Yep sure enough, it was out. 2 hours to get it where it should be.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Reardo on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 9:25 am

Do I have to unplug the PC3 to do the sync?

Cam, Can you please sticky this thread.

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2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 12:16 pm

@Reardo wrote:Do I have to unplug the PC3 to do the sync?
No you don't however if you adjsut the TPS you may need to reteach the PC where 0 is

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Reardo on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 1:56 pm

@dhula wrote:
@Reardo wrote:Do I have to unplug the PC3 to do the sync?
No you don't however if you adjsut the TPS you may need to reteach the PC where 0 is
Oh, it's running fine now tho, after the sync and it's going on the Dyno in two weeks. So, he CAN deal with that bit.

Any way. Thanks for the Thread dhula. It was easy to do, one of the easiest things to do. Your a LEGEND.

_________________
2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Reardo on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 4:44 pm

Is this close enough Dhula. I give up trying to make it perfect Very Happy





Last edited by Reardo on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 6:26 pm

Close enough but you can get it better.
Did you put the restriction pieces in the carbtune hoses?
To me it looks like you may not have as each cylinder is jumping around like it's got ants in it's pants.
Putting the restriction pieces in the hoses will make the reading for each cylinder much smoother and easier to read/adjsut.

Don't forget to give the throttle a quick blip once you think your close

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Reardo on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 6:43 pm

@dhula wrote:Close enough but you can get it better.
Did you put the restriction pieces in the carbtune hoses?
To me it looks like you may not have as each cylinder is jumping around like it's got ants in it's pants.
Putting the restriction pieces in the hoses will make the reading for each cylinder much smoother and easier to read/adjsut.

Don't forget to give the throttle a quick blip once you think your close

No mate (restriction pieces) I didn't. What bit is it? the little black plastic things or the clear tube?

_________________
2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Boatz on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 9:00 pm

Reardo, From memory you cut the clear tube into 4 pieces for the restrictors.

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Reardo on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 9:41 pm

Ok, Thank you.

_________________
2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
avatar
Reardo

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  aussie on Sat 14 Jan 2012, 10:26 pm

@Boatz wrote:Reardo, From memory you cut the clear tube into 4 pieces for the restrictors.

checked in my Carbtune instructions:

1. Cut the clear plastic tube into 4 equal parts.
2. Cut about 10cm off each 1 metre long hose
3, Push a restricter into one end of each short length of hose.
4. join long lengths to each hose/restricter assembly.

5. **** Important the end with the restricter MUST go towards the engine.

hope this helps

george

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Reardo on Sun 15 Jan 2012, 10:39 pm

I pasted the new video on the back of the old.


_________________
2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  phill north on Sun 26 Feb 2012, 7:45 pm

Hi Dhula.
Just want to pick your brain in regards to the throttle position sensor reset using the software system and the "manual system"(undoing the torx screws) adjustment. When you say its a fiddly pain in the bum doing it with the manual system, do you mean it takes you a 1/2 hour to do the adjustment or does it mean 5-10 minutes? Also is it much easier with the software system to adjust the position. If you don't adjust the TPS (Christ I HATE acronyms) when its indicating something like your 650s _C00, How much does it stuff up the balancing of the system?
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Wed 29 Feb 2012, 7:32 pm

AFAIK there is no software feature can do a TPS reset. Having used the HT OBD gear there is certainly none on that one. I've not got a copy of SDS however I have have used it briefly and got a fair bit of info for it (user manual etc) and can't recall it having a TPS reset feature either, but that doesn't mean it hasn't got one buried in there somewhere.
Perhaps you are meaning the ISC leaned value reset feature which is something quite different.


When I say that the TPS adjsutment is a fiddly PITA to get spot on, that's exactly what I mean.
The TPS on the bandit is not actually designed to be adjustable (if you have seen a TL, SV, DL TPS you will understand the difference) however there is from my experience having done a few bikes enough "slack" in the mounting hardware to allow enough adjustment to get the -C00 on the dash.
What makes it fiddly is the fact the Fi systems takes about 1-2 seconds to catch up to the fact you ahve moved the TPS so you have to be patient. Another thing is that you can set it spot on and while tightening the TPS so it doesn't move, it will move ever so slightly and put the adjustment out, so again you have to have patience and may have to revisit the adjustment a couple of times.
Once it sits stationary at -C00 for about 10-15 seconds do a quick twist of the throttle and let it find idle by itself (ie, go to half throttle and take you hand of the grip), if the -C00 still shows you are done, if not start again.
. The position of the TPS ( _C00, -C00 or [overscore]C00) makes no real difference to balancing the TB's
Setting the TPS correctly (Oh, BTW if you use the OBD tool or SDS it should be set to 27.9* ) is all about making sure the Fi works as Suzuki intended.

Hope that helps

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  kewwig on Wed 29 Feb 2012, 7:42 pm

+1. The dealers using SDS that I have spoken with say the TPS is non-adjustable. I have managed to do 3 bikes now to get -C00, but the biggest difference is from the TB sync, assuming no other faults. I can't say that the TPS move from _C00 to -C00 has made any difference that I can detect other than bringing the bike to spec. I did it manually (the "Dhula Way") and had it checked on the SDS and they said it was absolutely spot on
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Wed 29 Feb 2012, 8:37 pm

Setting the tps to -C00 can help reduce the snatch that occurs between no throttle and throttle. Usually found mid corner and sometimes a bit unexpected


Last edited by dhula on Wed 29 Feb 2012, 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fat finger ipood mistake)

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  reddog on Thu 01 Mar 2012, 3:38 pm

^ A well adjusted chain helps too
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  phill north on Fri 02 Mar 2012, 12:50 am

Thanks heaps for the advice. Got the morgan carbtune, obd tool and torx set and now will start having fun. I had a Torana LC GTR With tripple stomberg/SU carbies back when I was 20. It was so much easier to set up and balance the carbs back then. No radar or laser traps either.
Oh and thanks for using only about 20 acronyms, I'm getting to know what they are now. Whats VFM?
Ive noticed on the healtech obd tool program, in the "active tests" section that there is a "TP Learned Value Reset button" Would this be used as an alternative to loosening the TP sensor to do put it into the correct adjustment?
Just noticed that the TP sensor learned value reset button doesn't apply to the bandit....rats.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Mon 09 Apr 2012, 10:34 pm

@phill north wrote: Oh and thanks for using only about 20 acronyms, I'm getting to know what they are now. Whats VFM?
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  phill north on Wed 02 May 2012, 9:57 pm

Adjusted the throttle position sensor the other day after finding it was on _C00 (been lazy and hadn't adjusted it since I bought the bike). I loosened the torx screws only a very small amount and twisted the sensor. I couldn't even feel it move, but the system showed -C00, then I tightened the screws up again "gently" without excessive torque and checked the readout again. After rotating the throttle a couple of times it stayed at -C00. Excellent!
It took all of 5 mins to do, and with the healtech obd tool attached the throttle angles had gone from about 23.6 degrees (when the original setting was _C00) to 27 .93 degrees (at setting -C00). So that slight adjustment does make quite a bit of difference to the measured throttle angle. Did I feel a difference in the engine? Dunno, but I'm a bit anal when it comes to getting things right, and as long as I think I've done my best to get something I enjoy doing right, then I'm happy.
So thanks again Dhula.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Bhoffo on Wed 06 Jun 2012, 4:19 pm

Thanks to everyone who has already posted here... hopefully I'll get to do mine in the next few days..

I've managed to borrow one of the TB balancer thingys - it is actually an original Suzuki tool but on the ends of the rubber connecting pipes it has brass threaded connectors... the guy I borrowed it from said that when he used it on his bike (a Suzuki but not a Bandit and also a Honda he had) the brass tubes screwed into the manifold? There are no 'restrictor' type inserts in this one that I can see so maybe the brass connectors are? Question

Also... when doing the adjustments is it best to aim for the highest reading or just somewhere in the middle ground? Question




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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Boatz on Wed 06 Jun 2012, 7:39 pm

@Bhoffo wrote:Thanks to everyone who has already posted here... hopefully I'll get to do mine in the next few days..

I've managed to borrow one of the TB balancer thingys - it is actually an original Suzuki tool but on the ends of the rubber connecting pipes it has brass threaded connectors... the guy I borrowed it from said that when he used it on his bike (a Suzuki but not a Bandit and also a Honda he had) the brass tubes screwed into the manifold? There are no 'restrictor' type inserts in this one that I can see so maybe the brass connectors are? Question

Also... when doing the adjustments is it best to aim for the highest reading or just somewhere in the middle ground? Question




From memory i think you sync them all the same as No 2 cylinder.

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  kewwig on Wed 06 Jun 2012, 7:53 pm

Yep. Sync to number 2
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Bhoffo on Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:15 pm

Well its all done... Exclamation Not too hard thanks to Dhula's concise instructions and pictures - Thanks! Smile The balance wasn't too far out but it seemed to be idling smoother after I brought them all up to the same level... The instruments were indicating _COO to start with and I brought that up to -COO, but when doing the balance the instruments showed -C013?? Is that what others had showing?
Anyway all back together - only issue I had was that the tank 'fell' off the support I had underneath it... I just caught it in time but it still put a bit of a scratch in the RHS Crank Case cover Crying or Very sad - luckily not much and a man riding a headless horse at midnight wouldn't notice it... glad it didn't go all the way to the floor - then I'd be real Pi##ed!
Haven't taken it out for a ride yet to see what difference I can feel - that will probably have to wait until next week now depending on weather...

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