TB balance/sync

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TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Wed 31 Mar 2010, 9:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Read a post in the 12000 km service that talked about doing the TB's and letting the dealer/mechanic do it. Considering some of the other post in that thread related to costs etc I thought I'd post this up for those interested how to do it. (did a search and couldn't find anything similar - hope I haven't doubled up)
This is on a GSX650F so if you have a S model or neked bandit you can disregard any reference to fairings. The gauges are different also, but the info regarding the readout/display is the same

Disclaimer:
Before I start I have to say that I have taken all care to create this how to but I will not take any responsibility if you decide to use this info to do it yourself and cock it up causing the bike to have to visit a shop for repairs.
If you are not confident - DON'T DO IT

Righto.

First thing to do is to check that the TPS is adjusted correctly.
1. Create a lot of slack in the throttle cable. Your user manual will show you how to do this adjustment
2. Remove the RH side cover and find the dealer plug.


3. Remove the protective cap form the dealer plug and put the bike into dealer mode. I use a split pin (you'll notice I have covered the end of it to reduce the chance of shorts) but you can buy a dealer switch from Suzuki at a price around $30 AUD. NOTE: If the pic below dos not make sence for the pin location please say so and I'll explain it better.


4. Turn on the ignition and the dash should show something like this


You'll notice mine shows a _C00. This indicates my TPS needs adjusting. The following is a 'at home' way to do it but to get it spot on you'll either need to take it to a Suzuki dealer and ask them to do it for you or buy SDS
5. Remove the LH fairing and find the TPS


6. Loosen the TPS (DO NOT remove it from the bike). you'll need a TORX fitting T20H (it's the one with the hole in the middle) and it can be rotated to adjust the reading on the dash. It is a finiky, fiddly prick of a job to get right but in the end you need the dash readout to look like this when you have finished and have tightened the TPS (not to tight only by hand. I use a screwdriver type tool).


Now onto the TB balance.

NOTE: Leave the bike in dealer mode. If you have started here and not done the TPS check/adjust, put the bike into dealer mode as per step 2-3 above.
1. Remove the tank (you user manual should show you how). to expose the inner workings


2. Locate the IAP sensor


You need to unplug this and remove it with the hoses that are attached to it. This is what you are removing


You can just unplug the IAP sensor and disconnect all the hoses from the engine (those small barbs on the engine will become the test points for the balance tool) but I've said to remove it all so it is easier to see what you are doing, that's all
3. Hook up your balancing tool. I use a Morgan carbtune as I find it the easiest to use and there is no maintenance that goes with it. It is up to you what you use tho.
Locate the adjusting screws for each TB. Here is a pic of cylinder 2


and cylinder 3


Use a torch and take your time, you will find them.
4. Make some kind of thing up to hold your tank above the bike so you can access the adjusters while the bike is running. Here is what mine looks like all ready to go. Nothing pretty, but it works and is safe and secure.


5. Hook up the tank and start the bike. You will a code in the dash that is -C013. This is the code for the IAP you disconnected in step 2 and is perfectly normal. You now need to wait until the bike cooling fan kicks in. This ensures your bike is warmed up enough to do the adjustments. I also use a small fan to blow air onto the radiator and help move exhaust fumes out of my shed. I recommend you do this also as it will get quite hot in there.
This is what mine looked like at first start up


and after it was warm


So you can see I needed to do mine.
6. Adjust each adjusting screw (cylinder) to end up looking similar to this. (Mines not spot on as I still need to run the bike in and I'll be doing it again after the first service. It is better than before tho)


A few tips while adjusting.
*Do not make any changes to the adjustment while the fan is running, wait for it to stop.
*Make small adjustments slowly to be more precise.
*Turning the screw in (tightening it) makes the meter rise (increase in vacuum)
*Turning the screw out (loosening it) makes the meter fall (decrease in vacuum)
*Don't turn the screws out (loosen) too far as they will come out
*If you think you have it where you want it, crack the throttle and release it,wait for the engine to stabilize and check the gauge again. This is very important when you are almost finished and happy with the results.
7. Once happy remove the gauges and put your bike back together.

If there is anything you would like clarified please ask and I'll try to explain with a little more detail.

chears


Last edited by dhula on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 1:02 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:34 pm

@Bhoffo wrote:when doing the balance the instruments showed -C013?? Is that what others had showing?

You will a code in the dash that is -C013. This is the code for the IAP you disconnected in step 2 and is perfectly normal.
The code should go away from the dash once all is put back together but will remain stored in the ECU until cleared without effecting anything.

If you send your bike to a dealer and they put it on SDS, remember to tell them this or they may bill you for searching for a fault that isn't there (they should clear all codes as a matter or course and check again, but who knows)

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  barry_mcki on Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:18 pm

@Bhoffo wrote: - only issue I had was that the tank 'fell' off the support I had underneath it... I just caught it in time but it still put a bit of a scratch in the RHS Crank Case cover Crying or Very sad - luckily not much and a man riding a headless horse at midnight wouldn't notice it... glad it didn't go all the way to the floor - then I'd be real Pi##ed!

I always worry about this happening as well whenever I'm working on something under the tank, been thinking of getting this from Metrick Metals in the States:



Anyone got any other ideas ?
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  reddog on Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:36 pm

I've got a piece of wood that I made up that bolts to the frame and then uses tek screws to hold the tank to it so nothing moves. The front of the tank rests on the handlebars.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Bhoffo on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:38 pm

@reddog wrote:I've got a piece of wood that I made up that bolts to the frame and then uses tek screws to hold the tank to it so nothing moves. The front of the tank rests on the handlebars.

That's a good idea... will look at doing that 'next' time...

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A small problem..

Post  Bhoffo on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:47 pm

Well today was the first day that I'd had the opportunity to take the bike out for a whirl since doing the TB Balance and TPS... almost immediately noticed a dead spot when accelerating in each gear as if the engine was being starved of fuel. If I took it slower on the acceleration and gradually speeded up then it seemed to get up there ok but not if I wanted to accelerate quickly.. Sad

So has anyone else had this issue after doing the balance? Any suggestions? There was no 'dead' spot prior to me fiddling with the tune as mentioned above... Crying or Very sad

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  NTBill on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 10:07 pm

Nup. It only got better when I did mine.

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  reddog on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 2:15 pm

Are you sure you plugged everything back in correctly including the IAP vaccuum line?
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  kewwig on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 5:38 pm

@barry_mcki wrote:
@Bhoffo wrote: - only issue I had was that the tank 'fell' off the support I had underneath it... I just caught it in time but it still put a bit of a scratch in the RHS Crank Case cover Crying or Very sad - luckily not much and a man riding a headless horse at midnight wouldn't notice it... glad it didn't go all the way to the floor - then I'd be real Pi##ed!

I always worry about this happening as well whenever I'm working on something under the tank, been thinking of getting this from Metrick Metals in the States:



Anyone got any other ideas ?

I have Metrick's setup. It's good.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  reddog on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 7:30 pm

I will take a photo of my wooden stand next time it's in use. It cost me nothing but 20 minutes work to make. I just used a bit of wood off an old pallet
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Bhoffo on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 4:19 pm

@reddog wrote:Are you sure you plugged everything back in correctly including the IAP vaccuum line?

Yeah... sure...

Also been to a car mechanics joint where the guy that owns the place also has a Bandit... Did the TB balance again using his mercury balancer...
He was looking over my shoulder and said 'that screw there [in between the carbies] will be your idle adjustment' WRONG adjusted that and didn't work.... then figured out that the 'TB balancing' actually does the idle adjusting - THEN saw on his copy of the workshop manual that this 'screw' should never be touched as it's preset from the factory... looks like it may synch the butterflys in the outlet side of the carbs..

Continued to fiddle with it... took the fuel pump out and cleaned it per Gus' post.. had the injectors out and pressure tested then ultrasonically cleaned...tried to put the TPS back to where it was before I began all this ( _C00) but now it likes being at -C00!

Still have a huge dead spot so have bitten the bullet an have it booked in at the Penrith Suzuki dealership on Monday... think it needs computer analysis done now to put it all right... Not happy Jan...! Sad Especially as it was going quite OK before all this... just thought the 'tune up' would make it better!! Twisted Evil

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 7:59 pm

@Bhoffo wrote:
@reddog wrote:Are you sure you plugged everything back in correctly including the IAP vaccuum line?

Yeah... sure...

Also been to a car mechanics joint where the guy that owns the place also has a Bandit... Did the TB balance again using his mercury balancer...
He was looking over my shoulder and said 'that screw there [in between the carbies] will be your idle adjustment' WRONG adjusted that and didn't work.... then figured out that the 'TB balancing' actually does the idle adjusting - THEN saw on his copy of the workshop manual that this 'screw' should never be touched as it's preset from the factory... looks like it may synch the butterflys in the outlet side of the carbs..

Continued to fiddle with it... took the fuel pump out and cleaned it per Gus' post.. had the injectors out and pressure tested then ultrasonically cleaned...tried to put the TPS back to where it was before I began all this ( _C00) but now it likes being at -C00!

Still have a huge dead spot so have bitten the bullet an have it booked in at the Penrith Suzuki dealership on Monday... think it needs computer analysis done now to put it all right... Not happy Jan...! Sad Especially as it was going quite OK before all this... just thought the 'tune up' would make it better!! Twisted Evil

Yes the screw in the center that you can see from the top is to match the left and right set of TB's and shuld not need messing with. It is not the idle speed adjustment. There is no mechanical idle speed adjustment on the bandit, It is controlled by the ISC. If you have messed with the screw then it can take a bit to get it back to where it needs to be and the easiest way IMO is to take the TB's off the bike and set them by using a feeler gauge similar to the spark plug gauge of old (piece of wire, not a flat wide piece) or a drill bit to match the opening of the tb's to each other when at rest. You can open and hold the tb's mechanically by using a screw and locknut that is under the TB's (the other screw that the manual tells you never to touch) but you need to be sure to put it back where it belongs when finished or the ISC won't work as it should. You don't need to take the TB's off or do all this to get it back to spot on, I just like working on the bench when doing finiky stuff

When your bike goes into the dealer, make sure you tell them that you have messed with the screw in the center of the TB's or they will have a hell of a time sorting it all out I suspect.


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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  Bhoffo on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 8:24 pm

Thanks for the advice.... that's pretty well what I've done... the mechanic friend that suggested adjusting that screw suggested taking the carbi system out and then adjusting with the feeler gauges along the line that you've mentioned... Sort of lost trust there so that's why I decided to take it to the dealer... I told them on the phone what I'd done and moved... think it's a common thing to them that 'home' mechanics fiddle with bits... I'm sure that they have a laugh with their mates in the work shop saying "here's another guy that's stuffed up his bike by touching stuff he shouldn't"...

Will post the result (and the cost) when I have one! Hopefully Monday arvo.. Mad

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  NTBill on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 11:00 pm

Is it just me, or have the original pics dhula posted in this sticky been resized to just be thumbnails?

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  paul on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 11:20 pm

@NTBill wrote:Is it just me, or have the original pics dhula posted in this sticky been resized to just be thumbnails?


Yep they're smaller

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 1:05 am

I made them smaller to save a bit of screen space due to the first post being repeated every new page. Figured some peeps might get peeved at scrolling down on each new page due to the length of the original post so was trying to save a bit of frustration.

If you want em back to full size I can do so.

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  barry_mcki on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 7:33 am

I think that's a trap we all fall into, making a new big "how to" post and then having every page of subsequent replies/comments having to go through that long scroll. In future we should have a short intro post, i.e. "I am putting together a post on how to change ....." them have the longer post as the next one.

Whilst I love reading most of the things on here it does seem a waste of time (and download media) to do this every page.

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  NTBill on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 8:00 am

I think the original size is more useful for the level of detail they provide. Scrolling through doesn't worry me that much and there are not many threads that have lots of pics in one go like this one, but they are necessary and useful pics IMO. I'd vote to return to how they were. I probably wouldn't have had a go at doing the TBS aNd TPS adjustment myself without first being able to verify via the pics what I was doing.
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  dhula on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 1:04 pm

Have changed em back to original size.


@barry_mcki wrote:I think that's a trap we all fall into, making a new big "how to" post and then having every page of subsequent replies/comments having to go through that long scroll. In future we should have a short intro post, i.e. "I am putting together a post on how to change ....." them have the longer post as the next one.

Whilst I love reading most of the things on here it does seem a waste of time (and download media) to do this every page.

Not sure how to go about doing something like that to an existing thread. maybe Cam might be able to do that, or perhaps make an exception to this thread so that all the pics only show on page one.
Thoughts

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  kewwig on Wed 18 Jul 2012, 8:32 pm

There's a few differing ways of syncing the TBs. There's the way listed on this thread where you put the bike in dealer mode, which bypasses the ISC. Another way is using the Suzuki SDS software or a Healtech equivalent to set the bike up to be synced. (Most of us haven't go that setup). Another way is using vacuum on the ISC to trick it into thinking all is well so the TBs can be synced without talking to the computer.

I saw a recent post by Metrick Metal on another site, where he cut the number 4 vacuum line to his Morgan Carbtune Pro about 10 inches from the engine, put in a "T" piece and connected the ISC controller's vacuum line to that, so the no.4 line pulled ISC vacuum as well as the vacuum gauge. He said it made no difference to the vacuum reading, but made for a smooth idle.

I have always used the dealer mode version, so tried the T piece, and got a very smooth idle and I'd say the best sync yet in terms of consistency and smoothness of final ride. The idle now is turbine like.

Something to consider as an alternative
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Dhula you little rippa!

Post  ohmyfj55 on Sun 19 Aug 2012, 5:24 pm

Another Bandit successfully sorted with the Morgan Carbtune.

Thanks a great deal for your detailed post Dhula. The Carbtune turned up Friday so in having done the 16,000klm service on Thursday;

4 NGK iridiums (went the "one colder" 8's, not 7's)
Castrol Power1 5w40
Oil Filter
Cleaned/oiled K&N filter

I got in to balancing on Saturday. The TPS was in the right spot though the throttle bodies were out a fair way. Adjusted them all to sync, then thought to give the other suggestion a go. Put the t-piece into No.4 and hooked the I.A.P (think that's what it was called) back up. Found there was a little further adjustment and sure enough the idle did come to be a tad smoother from the first T.B.Sync attempt. Also found that all four screws came very close to being aligned the same way, compared to when first looking at them.

Thought I'd remove all the discs from the end of the Supertrapp while i was there to give the free-est of flowing treatment a go, as the end of the can was a little carboned up. Figured if a tad rich some more breathing couldn't hurt and it's no louder really. It all helps and it definitely feels better for it. Sure enough the 46tooth sprocket has put the speedo out but regardless of that, being able to see 200 on the dash while in third gear while only just getting up to the red left me convinced that it can boogey well enough if asked. It also feels good and smooth being able to putt around at the 2000rpm mark, at the sensible end (I do live in a small country town after all, where the cop shop closes at 5pm...seriously).

Great tool thanks Dhula and well done. We all shoud have one.

Regards,
Nat
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  barry_mcki on Sat 29 Sep 2012, 10:26 pm

Well finally got round to doing the last of the mods/checks before she goes in for the dyno tune on Tuesday. Got hold of an older style Carb Sync with the 4 gauges, made sure they were all reading the same with a constant vac applied (curtsy of a couple of "T" fittings, a bit of mouth suction, and a lock-off valve) - number 1 needed a smidgen adjusting of the face plate screw to bring it in line with the other 3.

Connected up a switch to short out the Dealer Mode pins, got -C00 straight away, no need to adjust anything Very Happy





Then hooked up the vac gauges, also "T'ed" off the IAP from #4 line to get a smooth idle. Started her up, all gauges read level - tuned out the bouncing of the needles with the little white thumb valves near the gauges. Checked the temp, needles stayed level at 24, 50, 100, and up to 108 degrees C when the fan kicked in - my little light even came on so I also know that works as well. Bimped the throttle a couple of times, everything stayed balanced, again with no need for adjustments cheers





The gauges look a little out in the photo due to parallax error, but they were all reading the same, and -C00 stayed constant whilst she got up to temp.

Looking forward to see what Brett at MotoGarage in Mitchell can achieve with fine tuning the PC-V, unfortunately he has to use a car dyno as my sidecar can't get into his shop to get onto his bike dyno, so there could be differences in the read outs to other Bandits he has worked on. Mine is running Peter's PC-V map currently and it seems to be pretty good from what my seat-of-the-pants dyno is telling me. I have the Autotune wired up but switched out at the moment, will bring it on line when Brett has done his magic, will be interesting to see if it notices any differences in the A/F readings.




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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  paul on Sat 29 Sep 2012, 10:51 pm

Would'nt it be great if things always went that smooth

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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  watto110 on Fri 19 Oct 2012, 3:12 pm

Started walking without crutches yesterday ( broke leg near 4 weeks ago ) so thought i might have a fiddle with my 1250 , checked TPS and was all good ! so onto PAIR removal kit but got stuck , cant work out where coolant drain plug is , could pull a hose i suppose but would rather find plug .

can anyone point in the right direction ?
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  gus on Fri 19 Oct 2012, 3:16 pm

LHS, near clutch push rod from memory. Remove large plastic cover .I'll check my manual .
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Re: TB balance/sync

Post  gus on Fri 19 Oct 2012, 3:22 pm

Yep ,water pump has a bolt higher than the other 3 .Thats the one .The water pump is above the side stand switch behind cover .

I take it your changing the coolant as it has nothing to do with the pair system .
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Re: TB balance/sync

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