ABS Brakes

First topic message reminder :

I had the good fortune of having a friggin large Roo ambush me yesterday. He appeared from out of the bushes & I was right I top of him before I registered he was in my path!

I thought it was all over & hit the brakes with everything..............the ABS kicked in and kept me from washing out the front end...........I missed the Roo's tail by a whisker. Too close for comfort........the morale is the ABS saved my arse by not letting me lock up the front end & wash out the wheel.

The ABS has paid for itself by me not having to scrape my butt & bike off the ground.

I know people will say threshold braking is more effective but in a survival situation you tend to over react with an overdose of adrenalin.

I still don't know why the Roo was out playing on the road at the time, it was midday he should have been asleep under a tree

I've had the ABS workin a few times but mainly on the rear as I've braked hard coming up to an intersection. Not panic braking, just having fun. . Tried it out on gravel too and works pretty good. Wasn't one of the things that sold the bike for me but I'm kinda glad it came with it now.

solerida wrote:

potatomasher wrote:i would never buy another bike without it.

Same here.
Its already payed for itself

ditto!

my first off on my v-strom was a slow speed (15kph) lock the front on a damp road when taxi decided that he needed to stop for no apparent reason! ABS would have saved me for sure - hence it was a no-brainer when purchasing the Bandit.

I'm another older rider who can look back over 7 accidents and believe 5 of them might have had different outcomes if I had had ABS - not that it was even available on any bikes at the period that covered those accidents - so ABS was a MUST on my shopping list. At the time I could have got a naked 1250 bandit without ABS for a couple of thousand cheaper, but I wasn't even tempted. On the other hand, if it had had ABS then the choice would have been far more difficult, because I was really undecided whether I needed any fairing for the easy-going style of riding I wanted to adopt,
Whitey 1's comments answered a couple of questions: i. Does the ABS work on the back brake or only the front? ii. Does it work on dirt roads at all? [I can remember a 4WD controversy where it was said that ABS prevented the wheels from digging down through the loose surface and gripping on the harder base, and therefore some examples of ABS 4WDs took twice the distance to stop on dirt.]
I was on my way to my favourite McDonalds the other morning - stopped at the lights and waited patiently for the green, cursed under my breath at a couple of cars that went through on the amber when they could have stopped, started off, only to have a young woman in a black Commadore cut right across in front of me when I was half way across the intersection! She had been facing a red light and just set off to turn right, even though her light was still red. I slammed on the brakes, skidded, and just missed hitting her dead centre - damn PUSHBIKE needs ABS!!

When I was shopping for a new bike 3 years ago, ABS was No1 on my list, hence I had only 3 bikes to try in Suzuki range: SV, Bandit and Vstrom.
It was a no brainer - ABS Bandit.

i tried to PM Dhula but not sure if it worked - message seems to be in outbox and not moving.... anyway as you two have experience can you throw your 2 cents worth in re this:

Hi Dhula
i am having a set of braided brake lines fitted font and back - was finished yesterday but i thought the lever felt a bit spongy so i left it at the shop and they are going to give i another bleed [since it was raining here agin anyway] seems to have a more powerful action though just the same]

re your comment in another post

'Having said that, on the bandit if you give it a good pressure bleed (not your normal squeeze and open bleeder nipple type bleed) and then by using a certain technique to pump fluid back to the m/cyl res from the calipers you can get the feel pretty good. I have standard lines and sintered pads on the front (oddly, organic pads on the back as I prefer it that way) and have a feel at the lever that is as close to the GSX650F of the wifes as F**K is to swearing.' ---------can you expand on this? thanks Steve

having seen abs in action the car and how effective it is in avoiding collisions. when i decided to buy a bike it was going to have to have it , hence the bandit and no thanks to fossil i had two choices a black bandit 2008 11000 ks non abs or a blue 2009 with abs with 48000ks for the money i had to spend . i bought the higher k one purely for the abs.
now as a rider that had not been on a bike for twenty years and my stay up right course training from 1988 had expired i find the abs serious piece of mind and i have had it kick in a couple of times amd have no problems with it .
when i got it i just went down to a quiet back road set my speed to 60ks and jammed on the skids to see what happens apart from making a hell of a racket i pulled up in a blink of an eye, was quiet surprised on how effective my brakes worked

Abs is god but traction control would take all the fun out it , but hey i might get more that 8k out of the rear tyre

plus i hit a kangaroo at 120ks in 88 but i must say i didnt even brake when it hit the roo just woke up in hospital so i dont really like dusk riding at all , and i emailed shuroo regarding a shuroo for my bike but the suckers are to big, they work a treat i have one on the car i have not seen a roo in years and my brother in law hates me for it cause as i drive into his property it lifts his heard of dairy cows and charges em down the paddock to get away any one for butter very effective

+1 for ABS. It saved me a few months back when a P Plater pulled out in front of me. Full brakes and I could still get through the 1m gap he left me. I was on very cold tyres at about -4C and was only 700m into my morning commute (still a little drowsy).

I was then able to 'explain' to the young driver the merits of actually stopping at intersections and why he would be very, very popular in jail if he had killed me.

ABS will be mandatory on bikes in near future I'd suggest but the UNECE and the USA have slightly varying standards and given our ADRs harmonise with the UNECE regs we'llbe picking them ip. However i understand there will be some consideration given at international levels to determine the best way. I guess the UN and the US might be discussing looking at reciprocal recognition or merging their standards or accepting each as alternatives etc to help with global sales. Aust is only 1% of global vehicle market so we won't be influencing any outcomes.

My thoughts on ABS is that for bikes designed for dirt work then it MUST be switchable. I've experienced total brake lockout on my Beemer F800GS on corrugations and it scared the crap out of me. I had forgotten to switch it of when I hit the dirt. The ABS defaults to on at start and need to actively switch it off before riding away.

On the GSX1250FA it aint switchable and that's fine cos I'm not hammering down dirt roads like I would on the GS. I learnt early on in the piece that trying to roost the fella behind while holding the front brake on a ABS bike can end in tears. Did it on my Beemer ONCE and back wheel spins up until a set speed is reached and then ABS modulates front brake automatically and bike and me flew forward into a tree. Embarrassing.
On the whole tho I agree ABS is a good thing but need to know its limitations.

I near hit the shed the other day. A storm washed dirt from my driveway on to the concrete pad at the front of the shed. I came down the drive at about 10-20k and hit the back brake(to slide it)lol. it locked up as expected, then then fully released a second letter . FUUUUCCCCKKKK ME. NOT a good feeling, when the brake locks you out.
It was dumb thing to do, but I'm glad I did. You should know what your bike is and isn't capable of.

potatomasher wrote:i tried to PM Dhula but not sure if it worked - message seems to be in outbox and not moving

Carn dude,

dhula's pm inbox thingy wrote:From potatomasher To dhula, Today at 5:32 am

I wasn't even out of bed yet :::sleepy eyes:::

potatomasher wrote:.... anyway as you two have experience can you throw your 2 cents worth in re this:

Hi Dhula
i am having a set of braided brake lines fitted font and back - was finished yesterday but i thought the lever felt a bit spongy so i left it at the shop and they are going to give i another bleed [since it was raining here agin anyway] seems to have a more powerful action though just the same]

re your comment in another post

'Having said that, on the bandit if you give it a good pressure bleed (not your normal squeeze and open bleeder nipple type bleed) and then by using a certain technique to pump fluid back to the m/cyl res from the calipers you can get the feel pretty good. I have standard lines and sintered pads on the front (oddly, organic pads on the back as I prefer it that way) and have a feel at the lever that is as close to the GSX650F of the wifes as F**K is to swearing.' ---------can you expand on this? thanks Steve

Before I start I will emphasize that if you are not confident in doing anything with your brakes or have the slightest doubt about the outcome - DON'T DO IT. get someone that knows.

Pressure bleed is by using one of these machines with appropriate fittings.

If you don't have the right fittings for the master cylinder then either get them or don't do it as you'll get brake fluid everywhere. I made one up out of an old m/cyl cap. I kept the pressure below ~7psi and it worked fine.

Another method to start with is by using a vacuum bleeder like this one.

Needs a air compressor to work tho.

Pumping fluid back to the m/cyl is a bit of an involved task as you need to take the caliper off to do it. You only do this after you have finished with the initial bleed process. Sometimes it is not needed at all but I found on the bandit that it improved the lever feel for me somewhat.
Way I did it: (There are other ways to do it but will need more care and attention to what you are doing so I think this will be the easiest to run with for first timer)
Use old worn brake pads and a piece of metal (steel not ali) to act as the disk. Make sure the piece of metal is long enough to act like a lever as you will be using it to lever the pistons back in. A tyre lever

is a good way. You need to be very careful that using this setup does not cause the pistons to pop out so your choice of thickness of the piece of metal is a bit important here.
Pump the brake lever/pedal till you get a hard one
Using the lever, work the pistons back into the caliper until they hit home. You need to be quick about it but slow enough not to cock the piston on the caliper. The front is a PITA as there are two calipers on the one circuit which means you need some way of keeping the first caliper pistons back while doing the 2nd caliper. As I was low on tools in the shed I used another piece of metal the same size as the gap between the(now spread apart) brake pads of the 1st caliper.
Be warned tho that doing this can cause brake fluid to overflow from the m/cyl res so keep an eye on it.
Once done put the calipers back on, new pads in and then pump the lever/pedal till you get a hard one again. Don't forget to keep an eye on the m/cyl res as you don't want to run out of fluid and need to bleed it all again.

Keep in mind tho, that it can be a lot of effort to go to with potentially little benefit. Before going to these lengths, I suggest that you exhaust all your options with normal bleeding techniques first.

My husband hates the abs on my bandit with a Passion and wishes he could turn it off. I don't mind it. It hardly ever comes on.

He reckons the abs is the reason it is now broken, as he pulled over, hitting the brakes hard and then hitting a patch of gravel on the side. The abs triggered and he didn't stop, collecting a reflector stalk on the side of the road with the side of the bike.

I just told him to stop riding it like that and he wouldn't have to worry about the abs in the future...

Am now up to the painting stage of the repair, had to do some plastic welding, which turned out better then I thought.

gus wrote:Am i the only person that doesnt have ABS. Its veeeery quiet out there.

realize it`s an old post Gus but I don`t either //Never had it so I don`t miss it . ( maybe a bit old school , but .............I`m old.)

I still use the old method of feathering the brakes & lightly pumping them .

Reardo wrote:I near hit the shed the other day. A storm washed dirt from my driveway on to the concrete pad at the front of the shed. I came down the drive at about 10-20k and hit the back brake(to slide it)lol. it locked up as expected, then then fully released a second letter . FUUUUCCCCKKKK ME. NOT a good feeling, when the brake locks you out.
It was dumb thing to do, but I'm glad I did. You should know what your bike is and isn't capable of.

Trying to recreate some corners in your driveway Reardo LOL

Thanks Dhula- you're a whizz!!

paul wrote:

Reardo wrote:I near hit the shed the other day. A storm washed dirt from my driveway on to the concrete pad at the front of the shed. I came down the drive at about 10-20k and hit the back brake(to slide it)lol. it locked up as expected, then then fully released a second letter . FUUUUCCCCKKKK ME. NOT a good feeling, when the brake locks you out.
It was dumb thing to do, but I'm glad I did. You should know what your bike is and isn't capable of.

Trying to recreate some corners in your driveway Reardo LOL

I second that Hahahaha!

Back on topic... Yes ABS on gravel is shit. But our bikes at 250+kg wet aren't meant for gravel anyway. On the black stuff it works well, I've been to 4 or 5 track days and it's never come on and that is braking very hard from close to 200kph for 20 minute sessions.