Another stripped sump plug

Screwed up big time (no pun intended).

Had my first try at changing the oil this morning. As I've mentioned before I have dyslexia and my particular flavour comes with spatial difficulties. In this case, though I double checked the old mantra "left for loose and right for tight", because I was underneath the bike my brain switched things around the wrong way.

I expected the plug to be a little tough to shift. Thought I was loosening it but turns out I was actually tightening it. As usual the brain suddenly switched over and I got the message I was actually turning right not left. Reversed and undid the bolt but too late as the damage was done.

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After the oil had drained I tried re-fitting the bolt. It got to the point where I was unable to turn it any further with gloved hand. But when I tried the tension wrench it tightened a little more then went loose again. 

Been researching options and there's a lot of discussion out there, everything from using a sealer as a temporary while getting a new oil pan to using something called a Time-Sert or getting that done for you at a dealers. I've read through Reardo's thread - sympathies from a fellow sufferer mate.

Just wondering if any of you can advise on a temporary though safe fix to at least get me back on the road for work? Plus I'm supposed to go to Noosa tomorrow for a business meeting that cannot be rescheduled. I'm hoping that mine's not so bad that using something like a sealer is going to be okay for the four or five days I'll need before I can get it fixed.

Regarding getting it fixed what do you recommend keeping in mind that I've still very much got my training wheels on when it comes to working on a bike, and the dyslexia thing.

1. Replace the oil pan

2. Get a hole drilled (not confident about doing that myself)

3. Time-Sert

I'm going to contact that wrecker again and see what he'll charge for the oil pan on the 2009. If too much then I'll just buy a new one. Also read that another guy with the same problem replaced his with one from a 2008 Suzuki 650. Apparently they are the same part number, however he just has Suzuki Bandit at the top of the thread so not sure if it's a 1250s like mine.

By the way, didn't see any washer when I took the bolt off. Isn't there supposed to be one?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Just found a video on a possible temporary fix that looks like it might be safer than using a sealant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdAvBAJaBwQ

This is from the info section:


Here's a cheap and easy fix for a stripped oil drain plug thread problem. It will work on a car or motorcycle, and you can buy it for around $5 at an auto parts store. The fix is a rubber drain plug with a bolt and wing nut on it to make it expand and fill the oil drain plug hole to seal the oil in. The rubber oil drain plug you see in the video is made by Dorman, and they call it the Oil-Tite Oil Drain Plug.

Maybe I can get something similar from SuperCheap.

Believe it or not also found a couple of Mobile Thread Repair services in Brisbane. Not sure if they do bikes as they don't specify on the websites.

If you can find one???

If the bolt is going in and almost tightening you could try some teflon tape on the threads and see if that holds. Temporary measure only of course.

Teflon tape sounds like a good option, thanks for the idea. It tightens up quite well just can't do it to the correct tightness.

Found this on the SuperCheap site, need to check size of course.

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• High-tech o-ring material expands up to 10% upon contact with engine oil
  
• Super-safe sealing performance
  
• Prevents self-loosening of plug
  
• Reduces oil pan thread damage risk
  
• $10.99
  

Okay, just went back and got this from one of the forum threads I visited earlier this morning:

2007 Suzuki GSF1250S Bandit Oil Drain Bolt measurements:
Bolt diameter: 14mm
Thread Pitch: 1.25
Length: 13mm
M14 x 1.25 x 13

The measurements for the Smart O-Sump are M12 x 1.25. As it expands by up to 10% on contact with oil it might actually do the job.

I once hammered in a clean, pointed stick when a mate stripped the thread on his old Kingswood. It lasted for a while.

Thanks, I needed the laugh.  

For a temporary fix I would consider Loctite.

The one I have used extensively (never on a sump plug though) is Loctite 248 (blue  - medium strength) in a stick (looks like an oversize lipstick tube   )

I would clean the sump hole and old sump plug to remove any oil residue, let it dry completely then apply a generous amount of Loctite to the sump plug thread.

I would hope the sump plug would thread into the sump with just hand pressure or the minimum amount of "spannering".

The sump plug should not need to be screwed in tight and is probably better with the Loctite residue left around the plug.
Let the Loctite cure for a few hours before refilling the oil.

For the permanent fix (and with a lack of workshop/fitting skills - please don't take that the wrong way) I would seek the services of an engine repair specialist. As I see it using a helicoil or similar requires you to hole the tap absolutely perpendicular to the thread. A tap wrench would suit this task. A socket or spanner is not going to achieve a good result and could result in more damage
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What do others think??

I'm with Madmax on this,  using a good amount of thread tape then tightening just enough should work until proper fix.

Can't get the crush washer off. Tried flat blade screwdriver, sharp knife, nothing working.

I wouldn't do any half baked repair on a motorbike sump plug, #1 the rebuild is worth a shit load more than a proper fix #2 I've seen the results of a "lost" sump plug on a motorbike, a bloke I used to work with had one come out at 110 kmh, not only did it destroy his engine, when it seized there was a massive lock up and he went arse up on the oily back tyre, do it once, do it properly!!

Just leave it there, no need to remove it at this point. Replace it when thread is fixed properly.

You're right mate, in hindsight probably would have been better leaving it on. Unfortunately managed to get it off before I saw your message. Next time I do an oil change on a Bandit I'm buying another sump plug, getting that washer off made removing the filter look easy.

No thread at the auto place. Trying Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant. No leaks either from the new filter or the sump plug. Leave it overnight and see how it goes. Based on what I'm hearing might be best to just be off the road for a week or so and see if I can borrow a car until the bike is fixed.

One of the mechanics at the Suzuki dealership thinks replacing with a secondhand oil pan is best option. Thinks drilling a new hole leaves it weaker than before. I have no idea what the truth of that is, however, seeing as in both cases I have to take the oil pan off anyway might as well replace it.

On Monday will see what the price for the new one is. Will let you know how I go.

Still no leaks either with the sump bolt or the new filter.

Ended up buying the Suzuki tool from Oliver's Motorcycles to remove the oil filter. They didn't have the right size but another place a couple of minutes away did so while I discussed the stripped sump plug with a mechanic one of the sales guys went and picked it up for me: $17. Every time I've been there they've been really helpful, though the mechanic did as much as say that I or anyone else had no business doing an oil change: not those exact words of course but when I called him on the implied message he admitted I'd read him right.

Said it frustrates him because it ends up costing more money than doing it yourself would have saved. But as I pointed out but for the dyslexia we'd not be having this conversation because I'd have turned the bolt the right way to loosen it. Putting it back on would have been a non-issue because I use a torque wrench for things like that: even has the settings on the filter I bought, which he also kicked up about because it wasn't OEM.

On the surreal side then in my view that such a by the book guy actually asked me why I was buying the Suzuki tool when I could just stab the filter with a screwdriver to turn it. Tried explaining that I'd been warned that a few people had ended up tearing through the thin metal ending up with half a filter stuck in the engine, but he was having none of it. Apparently been doing it that way for over 20 years with never a problem. Same thing when it came to using Torque wrenches, does it by feel apparently. Told him I'd stick with using the Torque wrenches thanks. Basically if I said white he said black, just couldn't put a foot right with the guy. Bit of a shame because he seems like a really good guy who I have to give credit to for only wanting to help.

Said if I brought the oil pan to him he'd do the Helicoil for about $50 but that if it turned out there was only about $20 difference in it best to go with a used oil pan. Pointed me in the direction of a Brisbane wrecker who might have one. Also gave me 4 of those rubber fasteners (well nuts?) for free that I mentioned needing for the upper fairing.

When I got back home turned out that the only wrench I had that was large enough to fit the Suzuki tool couldn't fit in between the filter and the headers. However, noticed that the tool has holes strategically placed around it. Was able to slide a screwdriver through two of them to give me the leverage I needed. Then the filter came off very easily and the new one went on just as easily. It's actually a pretty neat little tool. If anyone in the Brisbane area ever wants to use it just let me know. More than welcome to borrow it, no need to buy one if you don't want to. Probably unlikely you'd want to but might as well add that seeing as it's not heavy if anyone interstate needs to borrow it you're welcome too: your postage costs would probably be way cheaper than buying one.

The mechanic at the Suzuki dealers said it's highly likely the gasket will break when I remove the oil pan. Said I'd have to scrape the old gasket off and that I'd have to modify something like a chisel with a grinder to do it or buy special tools for the job. Said it would take a long time to get it done. Is that right or is there another option? Was hoping there might be a place you could pay to remove it using a machine or chemical process: probably just wishful thinking.

Waiting to see what removing the oil sump pan will involve. For a few months now I've been thinking of ordering the Holeshot aftermarket headers. Reading tonight most of the posts about Arrow and Delkevic now leaning strongly in the direction of the latter.  The Delkevic's are considerably cheaper landed and I fitted a Delkevic exhaust a while back which has continued to serve me well. Perhaps now's the time to bite the bullet and get a set of headers seeing as I'll be pulling things off the bike to remove the oil pan. Might be a good idea to do it all at the same time.

More than willing to learn and accept my limits but refuse to give up on learning to do all I can. Mechanical things will never come naturally for me but I'll be damned if I'll let my dyslexia or a setback like this stop me from becoming at least reasonably proficient. Saw a news report a few nights ago about a free climber in Europe who they call Spiderman scaling a major building. What really caught my attention was the fact that the guy has vertigo!

I've got an incurable disease called Meniers - fortunate to have been in remission for almost twenty years now - so I have more experience than I ever wanted to have with the horrors of vertigo. Talk about inspiring, the guy wants to climb so as far as he's concerned stuff the vertigo he's going to climb. Well I want to work on my own motorbike so stuff the dyslexia and well meaning mechanics because I'm going to keep on doing just that.

Searched online last night and rang a few places today. Best price overseas was around $170 but then you have to add on shipping cost. You had to go through the whole ordering process to do that so I have no idea what the cost would be. My local Suzuki Dealer can get it for me within 48 hours for $220.

However, I've decided to go with getting a new hole drilled. If I take the pan off myself they'll only charge me about $50 to do it. The mechanic thinks heli's make it weaker, the wrecker I spoke to today said it makes it stronger if the pan has enough meat on the bone.   Based on the positive posts I've read online it seems perfectly acceptable way to go.

Were you using a rachet and socket to remove the plug in the first place SK?  If you set the rachet to "undo" before putting it to the sump plug, it should be easy to avoid a repeat performance.

Yes I was, but not sure what you mean when you say setting it to "undo". On mine its just a little lever that changes the direction.

Welding and Redrilling it wont make it an weaker if its done properly, its just a sump plug not a structural thing is my reasoning.

I agree with Chook ie don't do half a job on sump plugs.

Enjoy reading your posts Soloman k, very informative with a lot of information I woild struggle to compress to less than 3500 words.

SK , If you use a K&N oil filter you only need a 17mm spanner to remove it. Very easy.

SolomonKane wrote:Can't get the crush washer off. Tried flat blade screwdriver, sharp knife, nothing working.

I know what you mean.  I use a small cheap cold chisel and tap each side until the edges fold up.  I put the bolt head in a vice with the threads pointing up and grab the folded edges of the washer with a small set of vice grips and unscrew it.  The first time it took me half an hour but I can do it now in under a minute.  I still use the crush washers but see the attraction of a plain copper washer.

Reading your previous post, your mechanic is just blowing his own trumpet. There are literally millions of unqualified people carrying out repairs to motorcycles and cars everyday. Most of them do a better job than their local mechanic, because they care.
He's telling you all this to discourage you so you will take it to him.

On the up side, a little money down the drain now also means knowledge gained for future reference. It will give you confidence to do more yourself even if you do stuff up from time to time. Just avoid making the same mistake when changing the spark plugs!   

A 17mm ring spanner will fit on the end of the filter tool, easiest way I hav found to get the filter off the bandit. I had an RF900 and there was more room for a socket straight between the headers and wrench on the outside of the headers in behind the tyre. I have read on the forum of others doing up the sump plug to the torque quoted in the workshop manual and stripping the thread. Remember it is just there to stop the oil falling out not the bike falling apart, it doesn't need to be super tight. A Dremel can be a handy tool to cut the washer off, just take care not to hit the thread on the plug!

SolomonKane wrote:Yes I was, but not sure what you mean when you say setting it to "undo". On mine its just a little lever that changes the direction.

He means hold the ratchet in your hand right way up and hold the socket in the other hand and move the handle and make sure that the socket is moving in the un-do direction, that way when you turn it upside down you don't have to think or guess, the ratchet will automatically be working in the right direction.

BTW most ratchets are too long to be doing up a plug in alloy, just put it in finger tight and nip it up with a short spanner or hold your ratchet right at the centre of course the torque wrench is a good option if you have one that goes low enough I wouldn't expect the recommended value to be more than 16 ftlbs.

For the same reason a thread repair of re-tap should be fine, you only need to get a seal, nothing structural.