ABS Brakes

I had the good fortune of having a friggin large Roo ambush me yesterday. He appeared from out of the bushes & I was right I top of him before I registered he was in my path!

I thought it was all over & hit the brakes with everything..............the ABS kicked in and kept me from washing out the front end...........I missed the Roo's tail by a whisker. Too close for comfort........the morale is the ABS saved my arse by not letting me lock up the front end & wash out the wheel.

The ABS has paid for itself by me not having to scrape my butt & bike off the ground.

I know people will say threshold braking is more effective but in a survival situation you tend to over react with an overdose of adrenalin.

I still don't know why the Roo was out playing on the road at the time, it was midday he should have been asleep under a tree

+1 to the ABS.

Havent got that. Wish i did though.

Its only got to work once to pay for its self eh!
I tend to ride early due to less cops n cars about but there seems to be a just too ealy time as well, nature has the same idea around here!

I used to do that,and still do at times. Did notice though that people see 3 o'clock and think "home time".Started to leave home at 2.30
to find deserted roads from 3 to 6 oclock and that nice evening coolness. Any way, back to Abs pity i carnt add it now.
How long before they make it (ABS) compulsory like lights on. ?

Probably wont happen till it becomes mandatory in Europe and the US, I know that there is already a lot of talk about it in the US, backed by research indicating that it will pay a major safety dividend. But hey at $500 I can't really see why more people don't simply shell out for it. Really we need to cut the bullshit that "I'm better than ABS" and "I don't want a computer controlling my brakes". Yes you probably can beat ABS, in on a clean dry surface, when you know the road, when the tyres are warm and after several practice attempts. But, when you fuck up or something unpredictable happens, when your arse starts munching your seat THEN with ABS you don't have to ask yourself 'How hard can I brake'...you just grab 'em as hard and fast as you can. I almost bought my Bandit without ABS 'cos I wanted a Blue one and in year K8 ABS was silver only but I went ABS and am glad. BTW I am still trying to get a good firm lever, that seems to be the only downside, (so far braided steel lines, radial master cylinder, Ferodo pads) and am slowly getting there.

One other thing, I am amazed that virtually all CB400's I see don't have ABS, when AFAIK its the only LAM offering ABS as an option. I just cannot believe that inexperienced riders are not being sold on the advantages of ABS, IMO the industry or riders as a group deserve a kick up the arse.

Thats interesting my brother has a Cb 400 his first bike.Sweet little thing it is too.I'm almost sure it doesnt have ABS,i wonder why not.?
I'll ring him and find out .

Rang him.---No ABS--Why not?---$1000 extra and didnt like the colour ----But,wish he had got it now.

Seems like if you havent got ABS ,you will have next bike.

There are a few discussion papers around the traps (Oz ones) that are talking about making ABS a mandatory feature on bikes. Not really sure if it will take off or not but IMO it should or at least be a switchable thing like is available on some BMW's and other makes.

For me there is noone in the world that can beat ABS in a panic situation, no matter what they say, how good a rider they are or how much wind they blow up their own arse, I just do not think anyone can beet ABS in a panic situation (I'll don flame suit now as I'm sure to cop it)

The only draw back I can thing of about ABS is that riders may not learn/practice threshold (or similar) braking techniques for that time when the ABS fails to work due to some problem with the system. But then again, do you need these skills if you have a well maintained ABS bike.

Thing is with ABS is that you need to practice with it form time to time so that you know what to expect when you do happen to need it. I do this each fortnight in a deserted shopping center carpark

I'm not so convinced on traction control yet as I think that if we make it too easy to maintain control on a bike the skill level and appreciation for the risk of riding might fade, but then there is the safety factor to consider as well.

Re the not so good lever feel of ABS. It's well known that some ABS machines will have a different feel to the brake lever/pedal compared to their non ABS bretherin. This is true for bikes as well as for cars/4wd's/trucks. It is something you sometimes have to accept. Anyone driven a early nissan patrol with ABS. Just keep pushing no matter what the pedal feels like, it will stop fast and straight.

Having said that, on the bandit if you give it a good pressure bleed (not your normal squeeze and open bleeder nipple type bleed) and then by using a certain technique to pump fluid back to the m/cyl res from the calipers you can get the feel pretty good. I have standard lines and sintered pads on the front (oddly, organic pads on the back as I prefer it that way) and have a feel at the lever that is as close to the GSX650F of the wifes as F**K is to swearing

i would never buy another bike without it. i am always amazed at these dickheads you come across on youtube or what have you who go on about how bad it is.....how would they know?? the whole idea with ABS is that it only does something once the wheel is locking up and i am more than happy to have the bike do the braking - there is just simply no way that you could outbrake it in a panic situation and that's when it comes into play [and i was out at west head yesterday afternoon and a wallaby went bouncing across in front of me too - not too close but there you go]. i have seen what it does in the dry from about 120 kph, and just standing on both brakes as hard as possible and there is no drama at all [and oddly after doing that twice the brakes have a lot more bite in them] haven't slammed it on in the wet though - might save that until unavoidable

Another big +1 for ABS and well done Suzuki for making it a very reasonable $500 option.
If I had Valentino Rossi's ability I'd probably still appreciate it as a safety net of sorts but for mere mortals in real world conditions I think it's a no brainer.

Damn roos (and sheep…) Such examples are an easy sell for ABS. We can have all the training & experience under the sun, but the dominant problem with unplanned events, is there unplanned... so any tools I can have in addition to experience I’ll take not caring if they’re electronic. I can still have fun on a scoot! Well done Jaba, how’d the undies fare?

Am i the only person that doesnt have ABS. Its veeeery quiet out there.

potatomasher wrote:i would never buy another bike without it.

Same here.
Its already payed for itself

Tippin’ there’s a lot without ABS Gus, so the clarification should follow. Whilst most times there’s no substitute for experience, if the new stuff has something that common sense finds it difficult to argue with, I at least will look / probably take it! ABS wasn’t a major selling point when getting the FA, I thought it was a common sense STD fitting. So now I’m wondering when a yolk air bag will come along as mainstream…

Mr Roo gave me a big fright......I had tp shake the pants out & then carried on down the road rather conservatively.

I come from a driver training background, so ABS was very high on the shopping list. Unfortunately when the Fight or Flight syndrome kicks in, you can't control that intial over reaction of muscle reflex.

It takes a fair amount of force on the picks to get the ABS to kick in on the Bandit, so you can still really pull them up fast with good threshold technique, but when you get caught with your pants down like I did, you can't beat a computer!

I've got just under 8000km on the FA & just love it. The only problem over this side in WA, trying to find good twistie roads to play on.

I've had the ABS workin a few times but mainly on the rear as I've braked hard coming up to an intersection. Not panic braking, just having fun. . Tried it out on gravel too and works pretty good. Wasn't one of the things that sold the bike for me but I'm kinda glad it came with it now.

solerida wrote:

potatomasher wrote:i would never buy another bike without it.

Same here.
Its already payed for itself

ditto!

my first off on my v-strom was a slow speed (15kph) lock the front on a damp road when taxi decided that he needed to stop for no apparent reason! ABS would have saved me for sure - hence it was a no-brainer when purchasing the Bandit.

I'm another older rider who can look back over 7 accidents and believe 5 of them might have had different outcomes if I had had ABS - not that it was even available on any bikes at the period that covered those accidents - so ABS was a MUST on my shopping list. At the time I could have got a naked 1250 bandit without ABS for a couple of thousand cheaper, but I wasn't even tempted. On the other hand, if it had had ABS then the choice would have been far more difficult, because I was really undecided whether I needed any fairing for the easy-going style of riding I wanted to adopt,
Whitey 1's comments answered a couple of questions: i. Does the ABS work on the back brake or only the front? ii. Does it work on dirt roads at all? [I can remember a 4WD controversy where it was said that ABS prevented the wheels from digging down through the loose surface and gripping on the harder base, and therefore some examples of ABS 4WDs took twice the distance to stop on dirt.]
I was on my way to my favourite McDonalds the other morning - stopped at the lights and waited patiently for the green, cursed under my breath at a couple of cars that went through on the amber when they could have stopped, started off, only to have a young woman in a black Commadore cut right across in front of me when I was half way across the intersection! She had been facing a red light and just set off to turn right, even though her light was still red. I slammed on the brakes, skidded, and just missed hitting her dead centre - damn PUSHBIKE needs ABS!!

When I was shopping for a new bike 3 years ago, ABS was No1 on my list, hence I had only 3 bikes to try in Suzuki range: SV, Bandit and Vstrom.
It was a no brainer - ABS Bandit.

i tried to PM Dhula but not sure if it worked - message seems to be in outbox and not moving.... anyway as you two have experience can you throw your 2 cents worth in re this:

Hi Dhula
i am having a set of braided brake lines fitted font and back - was finished yesterday but i thought the lever felt a bit spongy so i left it at the shop and they are going to give i another bleed [since it was raining here agin anyway] seems to have a more powerful action though just the same]

re your comment in another post

'Having said that, on the bandit if you give it a good pressure bleed (not your normal squeeze and open bleeder nipple type bleed) and then by using a certain technique to pump fluid back to the m/cyl res from the calipers you can get the feel pretty good. I have standard lines and sintered pads on the front (oddly, organic pads on the back as I prefer it that way) and have a feel at the lever that is as close to the GSX650F of the wifes as F**K is to swearing.' ---------can you expand on this? thanks Steve

having seen abs in action the car and how effective it is in avoiding collisions. when i decided to buy a bike it was going to have to have it , hence the bandit and no thanks to fossil i had two choices a black bandit 2008 11000 ks non abs or a blue 2009 with abs with 48000ks for the money i had to spend . i bought the higher k one purely for the abs.
now as a rider that had not been on a bike for twenty years and my stay up right course training from 1988 had expired i find the abs serious piece of mind and i have had it kick in a couple of times amd have no problems with it .
when i got it i just went down to a quiet back road set my speed to 60ks and jammed on the skids to see what happens apart from making a hell of a racket i pulled up in a blink of an eye, was quiet surprised on how effective my brakes worked

Abs is god but traction control would take all the fun out it , but hey i might get more that 8k out of the rear tyre

plus i hit a kangaroo at 120ks in 88 but i must say i didnt even brake when it hit the roo just woke up in hospital so i dont really like dusk riding at all , and i emailed shuroo regarding a shuroo for my bike but the suckers are to big, they work a treat i have one on the car i have not seen a roo in years and my brother in law hates me for it cause as i drive into his property it lifts his heard of dairy cows and charges em down the paddock to get away any one for butter very effective

+1 for ABS. It saved me a few months back when a P Plater pulled out in front of me. Full brakes and I could still get through the 1m gap he left me. I was on very cold tyres at about -4C and was only 700m into my morning commute (still a little drowsy).

I was then able to 'explain' to the young driver the merits of actually stopping at intersections and why he would be very, very popular in jail if he had killed me.

ABS will be mandatory on bikes in near future I'd suggest but the UNECE and the USA have slightly varying standards and given our ADRs harmonise with the UNECE regs we'llbe picking them ip. However i understand there will be some consideration given at international levels to determine the best way. I guess the UN and the US might be discussing looking at reciprocal recognition or merging their standards or accepting each as alternatives etc to help with global sales. Aust is only 1% of global vehicle market so we won't be influencing any outcomes.

My thoughts on ABS is that for bikes designed for dirt work then it MUST be switchable. I've experienced total brake lockout on my Beemer F800GS on corrugations and it scared the crap out of me. I had forgotten to switch it of when I hit the dirt. The ABS defaults to on at start and need to actively switch it off before riding away.

On the GSX1250FA it aint switchable and that's fine cos I'm not hammering down dirt roads like I would on the GS. I learnt early on in the piece that trying to roost the fella behind while holding the front brake on a ABS bike can end in tears. Did it on my Beemer ONCE and back wheel spins up until a set speed is reached and then ABS modulates front brake automatically and bike and me flew forward into a tree. Embarrassing.
On the whole tho I agree ABS is a good thing but need to know its limitations.

I near hit the shed the other day. A storm washed dirt from my driveway on to the concrete pad at the front of the shed. I came down the drive at about 10-20k and hit the back brake(to slide it)lol. it locked up as expected, then then fully released a second letter . FUUUUCCCCKKKK ME. NOT a good feeling, when the brake locks you out.
It was dumb thing to do, but I'm glad I did. You should know what your bike is and isn't capable of.

potatomasher wrote:i tried to PM Dhula but not sure if it worked - message seems to be in outbox and not moving

Carn dude,

dhula's pm inbox thingy wrote:From potatomasher To dhula, Today at 5:32 am

I wasn't even out of bed yet :::sleepy eyes:::

potatomasher wrote:.... anyway as you two have experience can you throw your 2 cents worth in re this:

Hi Dhula
i am having a set of braided brake lines fitted font and back - was finished yesterday but i thought the lever felt a bit spongy so i left it at the shop and they are going to give i another bleed [since it was raining here agin anyway] seems to have a more powerful action though just the same]

re your comment in another post

'Having said that, on the bandit if you give it a good pressure bleed (not your normal squeeze and open bleeder nipple type bleed) and then by using a certain technique to pump fluid back to the m/cyl res from the calipers you can get the feel pretty good. I have standard lines and sintered pads on the front (oddly, organic pads on the back as I prefer it that way) and have a feel at the lever that is as close to the GSX650F of the wifes as F**K is to swearing.' ---------can you expand on this? thanks Steve

Before I start I will emphasize that if you are not confident in doing anything with your brakes or have the slightest doubt about the outcome - DON'T DO IT. get someone that knows.

Pressure bleed is by using one of these machines with appropriate fittings.

If you don't have the right fittings for the master cylinder then either get them or don't do it as you'll get brake fluid everywhere. I made one up out of an old m/cyl cap. I kept the pressure below ~7psi and it worked fine.

Another method to start with is by using a vacuum bleeder like this one.

Needs a air compressor to work tho.

Pumping fluid back to the m/cyl is a bit of an involved task as you need to take the caliper off to do it. You only do this after you have finished with the initial bleed process. Sometimes it is not needed at all but I found on the bandit that it improved the lever feel for me somewhat.
Way I did it: (There are other ways to do it but will need more care and attention to what you are doing so I think this will be the easiest to run with for first timer)
Use old worn brake pads and a piece of metal (steel not ali) to act as the disk. Make sure the piece of metal is long enough to act like a lever as you will be using it to lever the pistons back in. A tyre lever

is a good way. You need to be very careful that using this setup does not cause the pistons to pop out so your choice of thickness of the piece of metal is a bit important here.
Pump the brake lever/pedal till you get a hard one
Using the lever, work the pistons back into the caliper until they hit home. You need to be quick about it but slow enough not to cock the piston on the caliper. The front is a PITA as there are two calipers on the one circuit which means you need some way of keeping the first caliper pistons back while doing the 2nd caliper. As I was low on tools in the shed I used another piece of metal the same size as the gap between the(now spread apart) brake pads of the 1st caliper.
Be warned tho that doing this can cause brake fluid to overflow from the m/cyl res so keep an eye on it.
Once done put the calipers back on, new pads in and then pump the lever/pedal till you get a hard one again. Don't forget to keep an eye on the m/cyl res as you don't want to run out of fluid and need to bleed it all again.

Keep in mind tho, that it can be a lot of effort to go to with potentially little benefit. Before going to these lengths, I suggest that you exhaust all your options with normal bleeding techniques first.