And Another one

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And Another one

Post  gus on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 7:07 pm

This was on Gumtree for $300  so I said i'll take it sight unseen ( or picture ) On pick up I gave him $350 , mirror is in back of truck .
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 7:19 pm

This is as I picked it up . Hasn't moved in 18 months . Has new back tire . Even has an air filter ( last 3 bikes it was missing )
Spent 3 days getting brakes working ,cleaning and overall checking . Fuel tank had the wrong type of hoes in it . ( it melted in fuel )
Old fuel was disgusting ,everything else good .Tank is alloy so not a blemish inside . 
 Tomorrow is start up day . I'm expecting a  problem somewhere , who parks a bike up like this for no reason . 
I rode one once and liked it .
Anyone want a GIVI , lol .
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Re: And Another one

Post  paul on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 7:39 pm


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Re: And Another one

Post  BanditDave on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 3:54 am

Howdy Gus,

I helped a mate do some serious restoration on a K100 (I think 1985?).

This is when I discovered there are two different automotive relays, type A and type B

BMW use type A, the rest of the world seem to use type B.

The difference between these two identical looking relays is the pin layout.

The consequence of using a type B relay in the fuel pump relay is that it destroys the fuel management module (located in the frame just behind the steering head).

This unit sells for around $300 secondhand.

Before I got near the bike my mate had done the relay change (A to B) trying to resolve a fuel issue and blown up two modules.

Luckily he had a third one which is still operating today.

BTW he purchased an electronic instrument cluster (Acewell) and replaced the old unit (which weighs about 5Kg). The bike has a few more dietary changes and is now somewhat like a café racer.

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Re: And Another one

Post  BanditDave on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 4:04 am

Howdy Gus,

Just another quick tip.

The K100 fuel injectors were just about all gummed up and little or no fuel was getting through.

You can get replacements for about $50 each. I also understand there is an identical injector in some Ford Falcons.

My solution was to wire each one in circuit with an automotive relay with the NC contact in series with the coil. This caused the relay to work like a buzzer (I'm sure you know what I mean!)

Each injector was put in an ultrasonic cleaner ($30 from China) with kerosene (or degreaser). I forgot which it was.

They took between 30minutes to 2 hours each but all injectors came good.

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Re: And Another one

Post  Chook on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 5:40 am

Looks like a good buy Gus, good luck with it
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Re: And Another one

Post  Ewok1958 on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 8:36 am

A fella could look pretty swish riding that around Tassie! Good buy if you don't hit too many snags Gus.  cheers
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 8:58 am

It seems Bmw  do things just to be different . THe twist grip mech. is a joke ,so complicated for no reason . .  The rear tail fairing is 10mm thick ,battery is the size of a car . Everything is so hard to get at and don't drop anything because you will spend hours trying to find it (yes I did )
Motor and gearbox looks like its out of our truck . Alloy tank is a work of art with internal welding . Seat looks comfortable , I havnt sat on it yet (weird I know )Bike is plumb ugly ,and heavy .
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Re: And Another one

Post  paul on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 11:20 am

Most European manufacturers have their own way of doing things in all types of vehicle manufacturing  .............. it can be just a bit confusing until you get your head around their way of thinking .

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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 2:08 pm

Like the blinker system ,just plain over complicated and wrong .It took me 5 mins to find the start button , about 3mm round in the centre of the kill switch .Looks like a dot ,certainly not a button .I havnt pushed it yet but I think that's it . All fluids are like new and to the right level .
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Re: And Another one

Post  rolls on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 3:01 pm

German (well) over-engineering. As the models progress through the years they get much, much better. A big change for the K and GS at about 2004. Only way to describe the blinkers is "fucked!".

BUT - if there was any bike you'd have a top box on it would be that one...

Good work Gus.
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 8:59 pm

I press the start button and get nothing but clicking from a relay ender the seat . The starter relay isn't clicking and its a cheap Chinese one . Ive had problems with these before . They over-heat and refuse to turn off ,even with the key turned off . it gets replace with a jap one I have spare . Still no progress though . The start button feels wrong . I only have to brush the button (not press )and a relay clicks (not starter relay ).
I pull the switch apart and find a totally shit complicated design with a mass of springs and a tiny ball bearing . Nightmare ,takes me 2 hours to work out how it goes back together . No So many buttons .
Light gets bad and I give up and crack a beer .
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 7:39 pm

Total of 3 hrs to put the switch block back together and it feels exactly as before . That's 3 hrs i'll never get back  Evil or Very Mad 
Can not get the starter relay to TRIP and send currant to starter .. I buy pass it ,connect starter motor direct to battery and it spins motor .
Hook it all back up properly but no currant to starter motor .
Starter button clicks a relay ,sends currant to starter relay, but no power coming out (to s. , motor )
There is another clicking at the same time near the headstock . 
It gets dark ,I give up and crack a beer .
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Re: And Another one

Post  barry_mcki on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 9:14 pm

What year is it Gus, if I can find a schematic I might be able to offer some suggestions.

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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 9:21 pm

1984 model. Has a red triangle illuminated on dash . Im thinking its a fault warning light
Waiting for my paper manual to turn up .
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Re: And Another one

Post  barry_mcki on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 9:54 pm

This looks like it might be the wiring diagram:

[url=http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/kwiring/Early K75 K100/K100_Early_Wiring_Diagram.jpeg]Early BMW R100[/url]

Look for a permanent 12v on fuse 5, that should tell you if there is a connection from the battery to the starter relay.  

If you can feel the relay clicking (it will be the only relay with the big 6mm red cable on pin 30), then you might have a stuffed internal contact - when energised that relay should push the heavy current out onto the large 6mm black cable (pin 87) that goes directly to the starter.

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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 11:01 am

It could be that a BMW starter relay is different to the ones I have .
This is a K100 relay .looks nothing like the one I have.
A normal 5 pin relay (not starter relay ) is different to a bmw relay .

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Re: And Another one

Post  BanditDave on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 11:55 am

Howdy Gus,


You have already confirmed the starter motor is running by connecting it directly across a battery.

My next suggestion is to substitute the starter motor with a couple of headlight globes. If they light up nice and bright there is unlikely to be a problem with the starter relay. Even before that, you could measure the DC volts across your starter motor to confirm it is close to full battery volts

If it turns out that the starter relay is buggered, any STARTER relay from a jap bike should substitute.

Be aware that there were a few different wiring strategies with these bikes. I have three different schematics with subtle differences.

You have probably already discovered that at this vintage, BMW must have been getting relays and copper wire very cheap 'cos they used shitloads compared to a Japanese bike. The other big issue is that there is very little slack in the wiring making it challenging to trace the wiring manually.

There is something else I recall. The gear selector produces three switch contacts which are sent to the instrument cluster. Apart from lighting the gear position indicator, it also sends out a neutral signal to the starter circuit. This neutral signal, OR the clutch switch are required for starting. The gear position switch is a three contact rotary unit which we had to rebuild on my mates K100


Hopefully this won't be a problem for you but here is an article which I found helpful

[size=32]Transmission Gear Position Switch Troubleshooting[/size]



By: Brian Curry March 1999



A number of people have reported their transmission gear position indicator (TGPI) getting goofy after running in the rain or washing their bike. They report that it gets better if the bike has some "drying" time. It sounds like water is getting into the switch and when it drys out, it works OK. If this is true, it could be bad long term, because the corrosion can eventually inop the switch or get the sensing module totally confused. If you are having this problem, and are doing a spline lube, that would be a GOOD TIME to check the switch. You can also check the switch before you do the spline lube to see if you want to either be ready to clean the switch or install a new one.



The same switch is used on both the K bike and R11 transmissions. I suspect the R12 and the new R11S with a six speed transmission have a similar switch. But since it is sensing six speeds instead of five the contact closure will be a bit different.



The TGPI switch lives on the back end of the transmission and behind the swing arm. It is not easy to get to. (Thus I have not taken one of the suspect units out, or asked those with one, to take theirs out and check it.) But it is possible to check the switch in place to see if there is water or corrosion in the switch and if cleaning or replacement should be considered. Here is how to do that, and more than your really ever wanted to know about the switch.



The switch connector has four wires/conductors, one common, and three sense wire/conductors. Brown, Yellow/Blue, Yellow/Black, Yellow/White. The Brown is the common. On K bikes, the connector is on the right side below the fuel tank. The TGPI switch itself is actually three switches. They close and open as the transmission gear is changed. The indicator module interprets the switch closures and displays the correct gear depending on which switches are closed.



Looking at the connector, the wires are arranged as follows:






___



/ \



Brown |o o| Yellow/White



Yellow/Blue |o o| Yellow/Black



|___|





The TGPI switch part where the cable/wires attaches has a central connection point for the common connection, and then three circular tracks surrounding it. Portions of the tracks have metal strips. This is where that particular switch is closed. The Yellow/Blue wire goes to the inner track, the Yellow/Black wire to the middle track and the Yellow/White wire to the outer track. This part snaps onto the transmission mounting base. The base has a separate inner circular part keyed to the transmission shift drum. This part has an inner connection to the common lead from the wire part. There are three spring loaded, to maintain contact, pins sticking up from the circular part. The pins are connected to the common lead in the circular part. The spring loaded pins make contact with the wire part metal tracks. If you take the TGPI switch apart DO IT IN A SHOE BOX! Those spring loaded bits will try to escape, and



they are small and hard to find. SadSad The wire part has a locating lug and a circular seal to reduce or prevent moisture entrance. Moisture might also be able to enter between the base and inner circular part. The switch I had, had grease at these points, but it might not be enough to prevent moisture intrusion.



The contact closure between the common brown wire and the sensing wires is as follows. (An "X" indicates a connection.):





Yellow/ | Yellow/ | Yellow/



Blue | Black | White



| |



1st | X | X



------------------------------------



Neutral X | X | X



------------------------------------



2nd X | | X



------------------------------------



3rd | | X



------------------------------------



4th X | X |



------------------------------------



5th | X |



------------------------------------





To check if you have corrosion products in the TGPI switch from water entry, and an indicator, IMO, of potential trouble, test the switch in 3rd and 5th gear. With the transmission in 3rd gear, there should be a completely open circuit between the Brown wire and the Yellow/Blue and the Yellow/Black wires. My VOM indicated NO CONNECTION, NADA, Infinity. The resistance between the Yellow/Blue and Yellow/Black wires will be the same, wide open. There will be an excellent connection from Brown to the Yellow/White wire. With the transmission in 5th gear, there should be a completely open circuit between the Brown wire and the Yellow/Blue and the Yellow/White wires. My VOM indicated NO CONNECTION, NADA, Infinity. The resistance between the Yellow/Blue and Yellow/White wires will be the same, wide open. There will be an excellent connection from Brown to the Yellow/Black wire. If you find some resistance where it should be open, this is not a good thing. It says there is something conductive there that should not be there.



I also checked when various tracks are connected to the common connection with the TGPI switch in front of you, off the transmission. As I noted there is keyed opening for the transmission shift drum to mechanically connect to the switch. For this description, where the wire comes out of the switch is 12:00. The switch is mounting base up and the key location can be seen. The "pointer" is on the same side/location as the key, and perpendicular to the key flat. With these conventions, the Brown wire is connected to the Yellow/Blue during 3:00-5:00 and 8:30-10:30. The Brown wire is connected to the Yellow/Black during 1:00-2:00, 3:00-4:30, and 9:30-11:30. The Brown wire is connected to the Yellow/White during 5:30-7:30 and 8:30-11:30.



The wire/contact tract isolation test can also be done with the switch off the transmission. With key flat horizontal, or the "pointer" at 6:00, there should be a completely open circuit between the Brown wire and the Yellow/Blue and the Yellow/Black wires. My VOM indicated NO CONNECTION, NADA, Infinity. The resistance between the Yellow/Blue and Yellow/Black wires will be the same, wide open. There will be an excellent connection from Brown to the Yellow/White wire. With the key flat "pointer" at 1:30, there should be a completely open circuit between the Brown wire and the Yellow/Blue and the Yellow/White



wires. My VOM indicated NO CONNECTION, NADA, Infinity. The resistance between the Yellow/Blue and Yellow/White wires will be the same, wide open. There will be an excellent connection from Brown to the Yellow/Black wire. If you show some resistance where it should be open, this is not a good thing. It says there is something conductive there that should not be there.



On a K bike to remove the switch from the transmission, first wedge out the rubber grommet where the wire passes through the transmission housing. With it out, the connector on the end of the wire will fit through the transmission housing hole. Now the switch can unfastened from the transmission, and pulled off I am not sure if the wire routing is the same on the R11 models. There is another switch on the shift drum shaft on the R11s. I have seen that.



A thank you to Anton Largiader for allowing me to do testing with a switch from him.



Good luck with your switch checking if you have a funky TGPI.

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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 4:40 pm

Starter motor is good. By earthing the starter relay I get it to send power to the starter motor. It turns ok ,then just ,then not at all . I'm thinking the bike needs a bigger  starter relay to sent enough power for the size of the motor . The one I have in place could be of a zzr 250 (I don't know ) if so I doubt it is strong enough .Tomorrow I will remove the starter relay from my Aprilia and try that . 
The wire from the relay to starter motor seems a bit small to carry the current to my mind .(3mm )Might add an extra one .
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 5:18 pm

I fitted the Aprilia starter relay and starter motor turn over easily . Certainly sounds nothing like a jap bike though winding over .
Fit a plug into a  cap and have spark .
Still confused on the bmw starter rely set up .
The connector to the relay is a two plug one . 
Press starter button and power goes through BOTH wires to relay ( hooked up to battery and starter motor ) but no CLICK 
If I connect one wire from starter relay to an earth (frame ) everything works .
Suspect
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 5:29 pm

I looks like the previous owner fitted a cheap Chinese relay to get it to start . Like the ones  I had spare, it wasn't strong enough .Maybe gets pissed off ,parks it, and rides his other bike . After a while looses interest and sell it to me . 
The good thing is , (i'm hoping ) , is that if the bike had a major problem , why bother fitting a new starter relay  to try and get it going .
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Re: And Another one

Post  paul on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 5:34 pm

You might be lucky .

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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 4:42 pm

Fuel pump is stuffed ,I pull it apart and get it to spin but not fast enough to get a fuel flow . Its a big bosch item and its costs $300 , what the bike cost ,so out of the question . I end up with  a commodore (car ) one for $120 that's supposed to work .
Manuals turns up in post so its time to crack a beer (it is 5 pm after all )
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Tue 24 Jul 2018, 11:16 am

Try and test the pump on bike a realise bmw decided the pump should be activated buy pressing the start button ,and then  when bike starts .
See the bike doesn't start ,(yet ), its another complex way of doing things . The electrical diagram in the back of the manual is head spinning due to complexity and its in BLACK AND WHITE . Rolling Eyes 
Seeing the condition of the old pump I remove the 4 injectors  . About the ONLY thing that has been easy . Connect them to a 9v battery (matchbox size)
which opens the flow of the injector and spray through some carb cleaner . Each one sprays cleanly to my surprise .
Refit and  have a cup of tea.
Nearly time to see if it will start .
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Re: And Another one

Post  gus on Tue 24 Jul 2018, 1:53 pm

Push start button .crank ,crank crank , not a hint of ignition . Plugs look dry so check if power is getting to injectors , it isn't .  Find the injector relay and trace power towards injectors . Find a connector ,wiggle it, and relay starts having a spasm . Take it apart ,clean and reconnect . Power now getting to injectors . By now there is petrol spilt all over the place  so I walk away . study
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Re: And Another one

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