Just another reason why you should do your own maintenance

Ok, so..8000km`s ago, I had someone, (I won`t mention the business) change the cam timing, as I don`t at present, (but this will now change)
have a Cam Timing Degrees kit, to change and experiment with cam timing.

Obviously, the valve clearances had to be set, and I did ask what they had set them to. It was a bit on the tight side, but within tolerance, as I was Told....yes,Told.

I was always going to check them before the typical 12 000km schedule  , to inspect and monitor.
The bike had been running slightly rough after the cam tweak, and until recent, had gotten a lot worse.

Time to pull apart and have a look  
All the valves had NO tolerance at all, and were all just touching when cold. How I didn`t burn valves is beyond me. Has damage already been done...well I can`t see how it hasn`t sped up the aging process, but lucky I looked, and fixed.

Its amazing what happens to an engine when its set right, it actually works. 

Is there any business out there to be trusted????????????????
I`m beginning to think....NO!!!!

mtbeerwah wrote:Ok, so..8000km`s ago, I had someone, (I won`t mention the business) change the cam timing, as I don`t at present, (but this will now change)
have a Cam Timing Degrees kit, to change and experiment with cam timing.

Obviously, the valve clearances had to be set, and I did ask what they had set them to. It was a bit on the tight side, but within tolerance, as I was Told....yes,Told.

I was always going to check them before the typical 12 000km schedule  , to inspect and monitor.
The bike had been running slightly rough after the cam tweak, and until recent, had gotten a lot worse.

Time to pull apart and have a look  
All the valves had NO tolerance at all, and were all just touching when cold. How I didn`t burn valves is beyond me. Has damage already been done...well I can`t see how it hasn`t sped up the aging process, but lucky I looked, and fixed.

Its amazing what happens to an engine when its set right, it actually works. 

Is there any business out there to be trusted????????????????
I`m beginning to think....NO!!!!

I think that there probably are a few, but very hard to find.
Although not for bikes a mate of mine runs his own shop, he has a very good reputation in the local area.

What a bullshit situation ..................I hope you had a " word " with them 

Unfortunately as far as bike and car servicing goes these days if it can't be plugged in the "mechanic" has no idea. I have 2 local shops who I trust with my non plug in bike. They both do as I ask and explain what's gone on. Luckily I have little need to visit them but when I do I know I'll be right. One advantage of being rural I guess.

I haven`t had words yet...

I always do my own maintenance, for this very reason.  I also find it therapeutic.

If you do it, you yourself know, its been done right.

If I had the tools to do the job, I wouldn`t have had someone else attempt to do it.

I`m now pondering if the cam degree is correct, to what I ordered.

Hopefully if it's now running ok , it won't be too far off the mark .

paul wrote:Hopefully if it's now running ok , it won't be too far off the mark .

It hasn`t skipped a tooth, and is now running smooth, due to the valves closing properly, and not allowing bypass.

Its just that there is a lot of combinations of Cam Timing, I want to try, and until I try them all, I won`t know what I like, and if it hasn`t been set correctly, I will have the wrong impression of rideability, of a given Timing input.

I`ll have to check the timing, to see if it has, in fact, been set to what I wanted.

I`ll be doing it from now on.    Just got to fork out for the set up now.

Ebay is your answer.  
I bought two dial indicators for $10 each. Chinese, but they do the job.  
A degree wheel for $30 delivered from the States and it came with an array of adapter mounts. 
So $50, less than an hours Labour from your mechanic, and you can set your cams as many times as you like.  

Look on www.banggood.com web site for dial gauges and magnetic stands probably similar to what Bosco bought

For a degree wheel, Office Works have a 360degree protractor for $0.99. Bunnings have a range of small round magnets very cleverly disguised as magnetic door stops.

Bosco15 wrote:Ebay is your answer.  
I bought two dial indicators for $10 each. Chinese, but they do the job.  

Are these as good as a Bali Rolex street watch????? ha ha ha ha
But in all honesty...that's a good idea.
Some of the prices of Cam Degree Kits are quiet stooopid. But I do understand in "some" regards, you do get what you pay for.



BanditDave

Look on www.banggood.com web site for dial gauges and magnetic stands probably similar to what Bosco bought

For a degree wheel, Office Works have a 360degree protractor for $0.99. Bunnings have a range of small round magnets very cleverly disguised as magnetic door stops.

Quiet an interesting site that Dave, I haven`t come across it before.
I do have some plastic protractors, but I will get decent ally one.


Cheers to both for advise.

I have no idea where to start with dialing in a cam on a bike, but when I put the cam and straight cut gears in the big block motor in my Fairlane besides the degree wheel and dial calipers, I also made up a piston stop - this was a spark plug that I took out the ceramic guts and welded in a rounded off bolt.  The idea is with it inserted into #1 you can get the exact point both before and after TDC (of course you rotate backward as the piston once it reached the plug's bolt can't go any further, halfway in between these two points is TDC, then move the degree wheel round to this point and get on with the rest of the process.  It was something like this:



Once you have the exact TDC then the dialing in part becomes a lot easier.  Mind you this was probably 15 years ago so the exact procedure is a little fuzzy and with our super tall spark plug wells I'm not sure if it would be the same.

I see this sort of problem only getting worse in future. As the old school mechanics retire we will be left with the young brigade that is taught how to read a computer screen. I'll bet that a lot of them out there  would not even know what a set of points is. Another problem is the huge variance in the quote that you get and then the final bill.  I am about to try a new shop for a $500 tune before I head south. I have read some good reviews. And then there are a couple that bag the place. So fingers crossed.

There`s nothing worse than being a Guinea Pig, but even worse, if you take it to a "reputable business" and get a bad job.

This was my circumstance. The main man, may have given it to, "just an employee", who doesn`t care, or his head is else where. But when it comes to this sort of thing, its not a hard job, but you must be focused...and and and, DOUBLE CHECK. 
You should never have to check the checker.

Good luck Hammy!!!



Barry..thats exactly what I was going to do, as part of the ensemble of things needed.

I bought a degreeing kit (hot cams??) from Jake Wilson for US$120 a few years ago, good quality. The adjustable cam gears were from an Aussie race parts mob that I can't remember the name of.


I had a surprise find a couple of weeks ago on my BMW 1200GS, not sure if it was from the old bloke I bought it off or he had work done on it at a shop. When the bike got hot from sitting and idling it developed a loud tick. I thought it may have been the cam chain stretching when it gets hot. I found that the rocker arm end play on both heads was past the outer limit, so I adjusted it back to the minimum,  -  but -   the valve clearances (0.15mm in / 0.30mm ex) on one head were spot on, but on the other head the exhaust was 0.3mm on one valve and 0.15mm on the other. Gotcha. Sounds like a sewing machine now.



Rolls.

rolls wrote:I bought a degreeing kit (hot cams??) from Jake Wilson for US$120 a few years ago, good quality. The adjustable cam gears were from an Aussie race parts mob that I can't remember the name of.


I had a surprise find a couple of weeks ago on my BMW 1200GS, not sure if it was from the old bloke I bought it off or he had work done on it at a shop. When the bike got hot from sitting and idling it developed a loud tick. I thought it may have been the cam chain stretching when it gets hot. I found that the rocker arm end play on both heads was past the outer limit, so I adjusted it back to the minimum,  -  but -   the valve clearances (0.15mm in / 0.30mm ex) on one head were spot on, but on the other head the exhaust was 0.3mm on one valve and 0.15mm on the other. Gotcha. Sounds like a sewing machine now.



Rolls.

They certainly make a big difference when they`re adjusted right. Straight after I fixed them, it was purring like a kitten. It was idling and behaving, like it had massive Cams in it. That's how rough it was. At 60km/h, it was impossible to ride, kangarooing and snatching. 

I`ve got APE Cam gears in mine.

BanditDave wrote:Look on www.banggood.com web site for dial gauges and magnetic stands probably similar to what Bosco bought

For a degree wheel, Office Works have a 360degree protractor for $0.99. Bunnings have a range of small round magnets very cleverly disguised as magnetic door stops.

I thought about a protractor,  when I was planning my cam timing adventure.  
Could not think of any reason why it wouldn't work.  
After I bought a dedicated degree wheel,  I figured out that the protractor route would have been a mistake.  
You are trying to adjust your cam settings to a certain degree of accuracy.  
It is a little daunting to begin with, but once you have done it with success, it's quite simple.  
The fact that a little movement of the crank provides quite a few degrees of movement of the degree wheel, makes a small diameter protractor inherently less accurate than the larger diameter degree wheel.  
They are both marked with degree markings, but the larger diameter allows the markings to be substantially further apart and as a result allows for more accurate adjustment.  
The modified spark plug trick for TDC is very good for checking that the factory mark is accurate.