GSX 1250 PCV maps?

I have mapped my GSF's PCV with Autotune and my setup is similar to yours.

I should be able to pull the map and attach to a PM some time later today.


Minor background info - O2 eliminator and PAIR is blocked off so doesn't effect the tune. I run a TRE so map is single gear(5th) / all cylinders. Mapping time was probably 25 - 50 hrs run time. Autotune was disconnected after trims settled. I live in a rural area where I could spend time at all throttle position/rev areas. I've run this map for around 50,000 kms.

Just goddam it.  I wish I knew as much about where the buttons are in the forum as I do about mapping.

Suggestions about the best way to send a data file through the forum plees guys.

Not sure you can attach or upload a file to the forum or to posts, never tried it. I'd think this capability would be turned off on the forum for space (cost) and/or security (virus protection) reasons.

A couple of ways to pass the map:

. You could get UW to PM you his email and send it back that way, or
. Setup one of those file sharing sites like DROPBOX where you upload the file to a third party server (sort of like how photos are shared) and then pass the details of its location to others so they can download it.

Tar, Barry.

I use Dropbox, so I'll go that way.

That's awesome!
I also have the O2 eliminator and PAIR blockoff. The way I figure it, your map would be within 90% of optimal for my bike, and would get me through until I can get an autotune and weld a bung on my exhaust for the wide-band o2 sensor.

Like Barry said, I can PM you my email address... Just let me know. 

I owe you one!

Dropbox link  :     https://www.dropbox.com/s/hm8n2ntx3q3v06q/GSF1250K7Autotune.pvm?dl=0


This is the tuned fuel map.  If you want the Target AF table as well I can get it for you. It'll take a day or two because the Autotune is currently in another bike.

A few notes : 

You'll see subtractions in cruise range. Target AF was dropped by 0.2 from stock for economy. Mine runs fine at cruise and moves seamlessly into high throttle openings in midrange.

The additions at 7500- 8500rpm are the corrections (still at stock AF) made by the Autotune for the increased airflow due to secondary throttle plate removal. This was my main reason for tuning. It has completely eliminated the dip in the stock power curve at 7500-8500rpm caused by the secondaries.

I never quite understood the subtractions at 2-20% and low revs. Stock AF's weren't altered there, but, meh, it still runs fine there

#Tag wrote:I never quite understood the subtractions at 2-20% and low revs. Stock AF's weren't altered there, but, meh, it still runs fine there

I read somewhere that there may be a software error between the Suzuki ECU and the PCV/Autotune where it will continually "over-lean" the very low RPMs out.  That may be what's happening here... I look to see if I can find that reference.

Also, what TRE are you using?  Would you recommend it?

Good work Tag. 

#Tag wrote:If you want the Target AF table as well I can get it for you. It'll take a day or two because the Autotune is currently in another bike.

Did you use a Target AF Table from the PowerCommander website?  Do you remember which one?

Cheers!

underwater wrote:Did you use a Target AF Table from the PowerCommander website?  Do you remember which one?

I actually can't remember whether I started with their "air filter + slip on" map or just started on a zero map. With the Autotune it doesn't matter. It can make a 10% correction as quickly as it will make a 1% correction.  Their maps nearly always use stock AF tables unless there is a known problem in a model and they leave it up to the user to alter those by preference. The most common user variation is to drop cruise AF's by a few points from stock for a bit better economy or add a few points at power settings for a tad more power (I did this map 5 years ago and actually can't remember what variations I used. I will retrieve the AF table from the unit so you will know what variations I made. It will take a few days till I can get around to swapping the Autotune between bikes)

Nevertheless, because our mods are all but identical, the map should be very close to ideal for you.

As for the TRE, I have the Healtech GIPro.(a combined gear indicator and retard eliminator)  Its there mainly for the gear indicator but just cos it has the eliminator its turned on too. It makes very little difference. They are a the most common brand (there are others available) and they've proven very reliable and trouble free.
In case you don't know how they work I'll bore you with the basics:  Suzuki have a timing retard and speed limiter function in the Noughties series Bandits, Gixxers and Hyabusas. In gears 1 through 4 it retards the ignition to give less abrupt throttle response so newbies don't fall off as much. However it switches off as you approach full throttle so you have normal ignition timing and full power available at full throttle. I used to be able to feel it switch off just near wide open throttle but the extra drive wasn't enough to unsettle the bike in any way. so I didn't think it was a biggie. The wiring harness piggy backs into the gear position sensor and it tells the ECU that the bike is always in 5th or 6th gear so the retard doesn't activate. As a side line it also switches off the speed limiter so you can exceed 299kph

#Tag wrote:

underwater wrote:Did you use a Target AF Table from the PowerCommander website?  Do you remember which one?

I actually can't remember whether I started with their "air filter + slip on" map or just started on a zero map. With the Autotune it doesn't matter. It can make a 10% correction as quickly as it will make a 1% correction.  Their maps nearly always use stock AF tables unless there is a known problem in a model and they leave it up to the user to alter those by preference. The most common user variation is to drop cruise AF's by a few points from stock for a bit better economy or add a few points at power settings for a tad more power (I did this map 5 years ago and actually can't remember what variations I used. I will retrieve the AF table from the unit so you will know what variations I made. It will take a few days till I can get around to swapping the Autotune between bikes)

Nevertheless, because our mods are all but identical, the map should be very close to ideal for you.

As for the TRE, I have the Healtech GIPro.(a combined gear indicator and retard eliminator)  Its there mainly for the gear indicator but just cos it has the eliminator its turned on too. It makes very little difference. They are a the most common brand (there are others available) and they've proven very reliable and trouble free.
In case you don't know how they work I'll bore you with the basics:  Suzuki have a timing retard and speed limiter function in the Noughties series Bandits, Gixxers and Hyabusas. In gears 1 through 4 it retards the ignition to give less abrupt throttle response so newbies don't fall off as much. However it switches off as you approach full throttle so you have normal ignition timing and full power available at full throttle. I used to be able to feel it switch off just near wide open throttle but the extra drive wasn't enough to unsettle the bike in any way. so I didn't think it was a biggie. The wiring harness piggy backs into the gear position sensor and it tells the ECU that the bike is always in 5th or 6th gear so the retard doesn't activate. As a side line it also switches off the speed limiter so you can exceed 299kph

Awesome!  I'm in no rush as it's over 20 degrees C below zero here... it's not exactly riding weather!  I appreciate the work you've put in for me.

As for the TRE, a 'Busa I modded for a customer got a pretty significant boost from the timing advancement, but I figured the Bandit wouldn't be dialed nearly as far back (proportionally).  It seems like this is the case.  As my '10 GSX has a gear position indicator already, I'll probably give this a miss for now.

I have the fairings off at the moment, so I might as well shape some Bonneville Salt Flats style fairings so I can blow past 300...

underwater wrote:

I'm in no rush as it's over 20 degrees C below zero here... it's not exactly riding weather!

I have the fairings off at the moment, so I might as well shape some Bonneville Salt Flats style fairings so I can blow past 300...

There is a resident Norwegian on the Bandit FB page who always posts up pics of his bike parked in his living room for 8 months of the year.

Fairings???  So you're not gunna be the next Scandinavian Rollie Free, then?

[img][/img]

Well, wearing a banana hammock like that in this weather would definitely make a certain part of my anatomy more aerodynamic... 

underwater wrote:Well, wearing a banana hammock like that in this weather would definitely make certain part of my anatomy more aerodynamic... 

Banana Hammock!!      Now we know the Scandinavian equivalent of Aussie Budgie Smugglers 

#Tag wrote:

underwater wrote:Well, wearing a banana hammock like that in this weather would definitely make certain part of my anatomy more aerodynamic... 

Banana Hammock!!      Now we know the Scandinavian equivalent of Aussie Budgie Smugglers 

Yep I like it, gunna use it.......

For anyone who is curious, here is the Autotuned map.  As a side note, Powercommander suggests zeroing everything below 2k RPM on their website.

I've done some more research into why AutoTune leans out the low throttle openings so much.  When decelerating, riders don't always close the throttle completely (due to riding conditions, not insinuating it's a bad thing).  The Autotune can't tell the difference between cruising and deceleration, so will attempt to lean out these times, which is why your map has values all the way down to -21(!!!).  If one removes all input below 2k rpm as per Dynojet, and manually reduces (or eliminates) the mixture adjustments at low throttle openings, it should still run well without risking an extreme lean situation.  A lot of people run target tables with 2% throttle zeroed completely, 5% zeroed to halfway to redline, 10% zeroed to 1/3 the way to redline, then 15% and up set all the way from 2k rpm to redline.

Next installment opistho :


So I finally got some time to swap the Autotune and retrieve the AF table from the Bandit.

Dropbox link : [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/dachjfi1dmx545k/Screenshot 2016-01-28]https://www.dropbox.com/s/dachjfi1dmx545k/Screenshot%202016-01-28%2014.34.33.png?dl=0[/url]

I'm really glad you got me off my arse to revisit this.  I had left it alone for 5 years because the initial tuning achieved exactly what I was after (eliminate the dip at 7500 - 8500 rpm)and the bike ran just fine everywhere else and had good fuel economy.

But as you can see the AF table (modified by me as my first attempt at tuning) is a bit of a dog's breakfast. It's safe as all values are between 13.0 and 14.0 but it certainly could be better.

I'll down load the stock Powercommander AF table  and retune and send you the new map. Just confirming, though, on the first map my bike runs fine by arse dyno - no perceived fuelling problems, good fuel economy, the plugs (which are just short of being in the bike for 100,000k are a light tan in colour with sharp electrodes) and the pipe has normal colour/sooting.


A suggestion, if you need it before I can retune, would be manually zero the 0, 2 and ?5 % throttle columns and low rpm rows and average out any peaks in the midrange. The high throttle/rpm  at 13.0 might be a bit rich but you don't spend much time there and it's in the fuel burnt = fun factor zone.

But that's your decision of course. There's heaps of info out there to wade through and absorb, and I've only done what you've been doing in that regard, so am no expert, either.

And if you think that fuel trim table is a bit wild, check this one out:

[img][/img]

This is out of my KTM 690 Duke which all suffer terrible fuelling issues in closed loop.

That is the trim table off an AF map built by a dynotuner and is the trims by Autotune AFTER the dynotune (and the correction of other mechanical issues).  The dynotune gave a good improvement from what it was (it was atrocious before ) and those (huge) trims after the dynotune have finally gotten the bike running properly after three years of hell. 

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So here is the new AF Table - no major changes, mostly 0.2 alterations with a few 0.4's. But it has a more normal shape than what I was running. So there will only be minor changes to the map I sent before.

I'll let you know when the tune is done.

[url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8yxyy56tanqasw/GSF1250 AF]https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8yxyy56tanqasw/GSF1250%20AF%20Table.png?dl=0[/url]

Wow, some of those numbers are scarily lean, but if it works it works!

I just dropped my headers off today to have the O2 sensor hole drilled and tapped to 18mm for the wideband.  I got a great deal on an Autotune, so I'm gonna give it a go from the ground up.  I'll make sure to post all progress here... there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of info out there, so we might as well keep it in one place.

underwater wrote:I'll make sure to post all progress here... there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of info out there, so we might as well keep it in one place.

Please do

OK.  So I've had the bike apart for around a monthish now and put the final touches on today.  The PC5 was already wired up, so I put the stock headers (with an 18mm O2 sensor bung welded in) back on, and hooked up the Autotune.  I then adjusted the TPS and balanced the throttle bodies.  She was 100% stock last time I rode her, but now has:

Airbox hole
K&N filter
Leo Vince slipon
PC5
Autotune
Removed butterflies
Removed PAIR

Holy mother of stonk.  This bike is a completely different beast now.  For a fat pig, she hauls serious ass now, especially up to around 200km/h.  After that, the sheer size and weight holds her back.  It's unfortunate that the only local dyno shop wants 300 euro just to do a run.
I put in a target table of my own making, but didn't take a look at the results yet.  I'll do that tomorrow afternoon and post it up here.

Here's the target table.  More to come!