Warning about HIDs

First topic message reminder :

On my trip back from Parkes today. Whilst rolling slowly into the town of Yarck I was pulled over by a unmarked police car. He had been sitting on the side of the road looking suspiciously like a camera car.

The first thing he asked me was if it was a HID headlight. I played dumb and he went on to explaining HID and why we can't have them.

Now what I don't understand is this shit about self levelling and the need to have a washer for them?
The cop explained that on riding up a hill at night as you reach the crest the light beam would be pointed upwards and blind oncoming traffic. Wouldn't the same thing occur with halogen?
Regardless of the road angle the light beam is still pointed down at the same angle, this angle doesn't change with halogen. Is this just some bullshit reason to stop people changing their lights to HID
He went on to explain expensive European cars such as Porsche, BMW, Mercs, and Audis have self levelling lights and washer jets to clean the lens, wtf for?

At least the cop was a good bloke and let me of with a verbal warning about getting it sorted asap. Then just made it a licence check and a breatho.

Now what do I do?
The HID's have been there for over 3 years, no oncoming traffic has ever flashed me, no other cop has ever been concerned enough to pull me over. Did this one pull me over because of how white it is.
Maybe a new HID bulb with a warmer colour temp would make it less recognisable as a HID light.

I went for a ride with a group on Sunday 15th. Mixed array of bikes (17 all up) quite a few I know well. A couple had similar lights to those being discussed (the same as far as I could tell) on their bikes (a Harley, Kawa cruiser also) - general concensus was no-one had been stopped/question/looked at sideways with regards to their lights. Mmmmmmm?

You might be right about your police state there Max.

Love the line "as you reach the crest the light beam would be pointed upwards", maybe you're only suppose to ride uphill during daylight hours in Vic   

It's a good thing that cars don't exhibit this hoon behaviour, we'd all be blinded

I agree there, Rayman. 
Never had an issue with mine in NSW. 
I was a little taken aback, when visiting Melbourne, to see the number of Police in the city. On foot, on horseback, in cars, stood in groups of six or so. 
You rarely see a cop in NSW, and when you do it's generally hiding behind a tree with a radar gun or in Macdonalds.
I was sort of impressed by Victoria's commitment to public safety, with their high Police presence, but can imagine it becoming a hassle with a few zealous cops pinching guys for bright headlights and other minor infractions, just because there's not enough crime to keep the massive numbers of cops busy. 
Policing can be either preventative or reactionary. I think that Vic has the right idea in trying to prevent crime with a high visible presence, whereas NSW just mops up the mess after the fact.
Police discretion, like the nice chap that let Max off with a stern talking to, goes a long way.

Corsa79 wrote:I'd like to see a similar photo with tree or something else to show how high the shine.

I know it's great to have good lighting but what's the point if anything coming towards you cant see through the glare (not saying your bike is like that) eventually no one will be able to see a bloody thing through the on coming lights

.

Rayman, there are some police in SA that would grab anything with after market HID's as soon as they're spotted, I'd be very surprised if one got through a roadworthy over here either (for those interstate it's still done by state govt authority here, but only when "referred" to them by Police, no annual inspections).

I checked to make shore I wasn't blinding anyone on low beam. All photos where taken on high beam. The low beam has a definite line where it doesn't shine above and is directed downward. I have been blinded by more cars and 4wds never had a problem with oncoming traffic. I mainly do day time riding and found I was seen a lot more with the hid low beam. I think it just really depends on adjustment having it right. As for policing of having aftermarkets just as long as they can test to make shore not blinding anyone you should be left alone. I have a Subaru forrester xt with standard hid low beams and if anything they are to low.

I agree Corsa. Is the issue when they are on high beam?? Or just that they are brighter (when on low beam)? Isn't being brighter on low beam a good thing? Any car on high beam is blinding for me.

Is having "after market" additions the issue? Most police cars and bikes do OK in this regard.

I've probably spent more time and money on HID kits, projectors and parts than anyone on this forum, so I think I've picked up a little about the pro's and con's of these type of lights.  I've currently got HID replace bulbs in my 07 1250 and I think the reflector causes too much glare on this model Bandit, hence the reason I started the HID Projector project.

No doubt about it, we all know there are a lot of bad HID replacement bulb kits out there, just take a quick trip down to the shop at night and you'll pass at least two vehicles with so much glare coming from their lights its hard to see anything in front of you.

Whilst the refelector on the newer 2010 (GSX) Bandits seem to be one of the better for reducing the scatter effect, as well as the fact we have the H7 bulbs and at least they have the same filament orientation as the HID arc capsule, there are still some electro, optical, and physical reasons why the RTA's and hence the police could take a dim view of them (  sorry about that pun).  

Whilst the kit manufacturers can (sometimes) get the base of the bulb correct so it "fits in the hole", there is a fundamental difference between a halogen filament and a HID capsule.  The two can never match due to their physical construction and the generation of light across the contact points.  The arc of a HID generates lots more light and in a lot of cases this is flared all over the place.  If the location of the HID capsule is too far off the original halogen designed focal point, the actual light patern itself is out of focus and you can end up with a worse light cutoff patern than what you are replacing.  Here is an example of a poor HID kit (on the right)  verses the original bulbs, this is what is seen in those square boxes they put on your lights during rego checks:



It is also this over-abundance of light that many believe is what makes their HIDs appear to be so much better than their filament bulbs.  The scattered light in the fore ground appears great to us as we can see everything close very well, however there is so much light that our pupils start adjusting for it, and this actually makes our long distance vision worse.  

There is also this false belief the higher the kelvin rating the better the light, however we humans have evolved to best see at a colour temp of approx 4300k, and in poor conditions such as fog or mist, an even lower figure (hence the yellow fog lights).  The blue lights getting around are best suited for the carpark ricers, not the street.

Recently there have been reports of vehicle electronics failing or doing weird things due to the poorly shield high voltage/frequencies produced by some of the cheaper kits.  As things get more complicated with auto-electronics, instead of you just having a strange whine from the radio, your drive by wire brakes, accelerator and steering might decide to do their own thing.  I think this is the reason there has been an emphasis away from HID to LED in the up-market cars and bikes of late.

To really tell if your kit has improved you need a lot more training, equipment and knowledge of lighting that any of us have, its a specialised field.  The best we can do is have others tell us if the light is flaring, if it is do something about it before you cause an accident.  

Or don't ride at night

More reading on why not to use HID kits

Thanks again for the info Barry.

What I done so far, as i intend on sticking with HID for the time being.

Dipped the low beam down a little more
Ordered a pair of 4300k replacement bulbs.
We'll see how it all goes, hopefully these new bulbs give as good a spread as the old ones.

AS for LED, from what I can find on the web they may be just as illegal as HID as an aftermarket solution.

I think if you can transplant something that's currently on the road by a bike/car manufacturer into yours, it should be ok.  However there is going to be the same issues with just putting the light capsule/stalk onto a H7 base and expect it to work.  All the hi-power LEDs I've seen have fairly big base heat sinks, how hot they get and whether these would melt/distort the plastic housings of the headlamp.

The new Z1000 runs quad LED headlights (2 lo, 2 hi).  These would be an ideal donor if the price wasn't too high.

LEDS are going to be  passing phase, as Laser Lights are the new latest and greatest for the prestige market.

I put up a post last year sometime about BMW, with their systems.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew5fgttws4c   They`re pretty impressive, but of coarse, as the HID`s are , and were when they came out, would be exorbitantly expensive, and I think sticking with HID`s are still the go, in the correct parabolic, as barry has high lighted.

I`m the same with barry on the whole process. I`ve been playing with HID`s since 2001, and talking of quality, the factory Hella HID spotlights on my car, that I`ve had since 2001, I`ve only had one bulb fail on me in all that time, and that's a testament to quality German made stuff, as opposed to the cheap market, and all three are still going strong. I have also experimented extensively, and have a cupboard full of Chinese shit, and German made stuff, and several sets of projectors for cars and bikes, and can`t stand the cheap shit. You get what you pay for, but I guess it depends on your application. I regularly do night rides of 600km`s of rural, and want good lighting. If you don`t do a lot of night riding, and only ride the city beat, qualities probably not a concern, correct light throw is,and I personally lost interest in 6000k bulbs in 2006, and went to 4300-4500k bulbs, as they have better lumens, and suit my eye`s better.  But to each their own there.

barry_mcki wrote:All the hi-power LEDs I've seen have fairly big base heat sinks, how hot they get and whether these would melt/distort the plastic housings of the headlamp.
.

The ones I was looking at had not only a massive heat sink but also a cooling fan possibly making the size of them an issue with the housing. With a cooling fan on the rear would that then mean the back cover would have to remain off?

Not keen on that idea