to ABS or not

Without inviting a debate on the merits of ABS, here's the Youtube clips showing a 1200 bandit (K6 with the 1250 look) doing ABS braking. Really informative. I like the confidence of knowing a white knuckle ohshit moment is not going to dump me on a wet road.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRj1UxaVSCs

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0bDFRriIls

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0bDFRriIls

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5yD8Xsnijg&feature=related

Weekend before last I spent a day on a wet track, with the ABS I almost felt like I was cheating! I glad I spent the extra $500,

Cheers Peter

My next bike will have ABS providing it's available across the range. Why did S offer it on one colour B1250 only when I was buying?

ABS is the way to go. You can't beat it when in an emergency situation and the Fight & Flight syndrome kicks in.

Yes you may be able to stop quicker with good threshold braking, but when you get a big fright and grab a hugh handfull of front brake, you won't wash out the front end with ABS.

Sorry, just not buying it... I rode an ABS model before getting mine, and it just felt.... wrong.... sure in an absolute emergency situation it MIGHT save you, but for every day usage it just doesn't give me the feeling the direct feeling that I want from a breaking system. Instead of a wishy-washy breaking system I would rather use my 15 years experience to not just grab a hand-full and bin it.

For the $500 premium (when I brought mine anyway) I recon ABS is the go.
You do get a different feel at the lever/pedal IMO but this can be overcome to feel almost as good as non ABS with the right bleeding technique.
Good pads make a huge difference as well.
Despite the lever/pedal feel, just keep squeezing - she'll stop

Not having ridden any other bike with ABS I don't know how they perform, but the bandit does pretty well IMO as you need a pretty heavy hand to make the ABS kick in at the front, even with good biteey pads.
The back on the other hand is pretty easy to make it kick in if braking real hard which IMO is where the ABS pays for itself.

My mrs rides a GSX650F and if Oz had the bike available with ABS I would be trading it in a heartbeat so she had the benefits of ABS in a sphincter moment, despite the loss of coin on the trade.

I was happy to pay the extra $500 for the ABS - don't know if I would be happy to pay the BMW premium for ABS but would still rather have it. I know the oft quoted story of an expert rider out braking an ABS equiped bike BUT if we all knew when we were going to need a fist full of brakes to avoid something then we would not need ABS (or insurance for that matter). Every ridier training day and every track day I've attended this topic comes up and the comparison is done and can be won by the non ABS bike but only on a good track with practice by an expert rider with fore warning of the event happening. I'm happy to have ABS and hope I never need to use it in anger.
After you purchase an ABS bike you need to practice hard stopping to get the feel of the bike but then I think you need to do this with any bike as they are all different.
Cheers
Mark

ClaytonFirth wrote:Sorry, just not buying it... I rode an ABS model before getting mine, and it just felt.... wrong.... sure in an absolute emergency situation it MIGHT save you, but for every day usage it just doesn't give me the feeling the direct feeling that I want from a breaking system. Instead of a wishy-washy breaking system I would rather use my 15 years experience to not just grab a hand-full and bin it.

I am interested to know why it felt wrong. This is my third bandit and 20th bike over 20 years of riding, and the brakes just feel like Suzuki brakes to me. You never notice the ABS and I hope to never need it. I look at it as insurance for that time you literally grab everything or die, and it enables me to brake maximally and still counter steer. (I've practised). I accept that under controlled ideal conditions some highly skilled riders may be able to outbrake an ABS bike, but on wet roads with diesel spills, uncertain surfaces, kids playing lemmings, roos and other critters and cage drivers with their heads on backwards, ABS is a bonus. I wouldn't be without it and I'd shudder if cars were no longer fitted with it. I do accept that it's not ideal for gravel or off road, but not many will take a road bike there anyway, and we are careful if we do.

In NZ, 30% of motorcycle fatalities from 2003-2007 were 'lost control/run off road" and a lot of that is overcooking corners, braking poorly and losing it. The effect of antilock braking systems (ABS) on motorcyclist fatal crash risk during 2003-08 was studied in the US by comparing fatal crash rates per registrations of motorcycles with and without ABS. Study motorcycles included those for which ABS was optional equipment and could be identified as present by the vehicle identification number. Fatal motorcycle crashes per 10,000 registered vehicle years were 37 percent lower for ABS models than for their non-ABS versions (Teoh, 2010). Whilst one could argue that "safer" riders buy ABS bikes, having crashed due to poor braking and seen first hand the effects of it, I'd rather have it than not.

A matter of personal choice, but as unit costs come down, I'd say non ABS road bikes will eventually be regulated out. We will follow the cages in that regard, and I imagine that those who disable the ABS (we motorcyclists will find a way around anything) will have major insurance woes as a result.

Sorry to sound like a rant, but I hate it every time one of us bins it. The number of experienced riders I see who lose the front end under braking is a lesson I have heeded!

From experience ABS will kick in when it's needed. I get sick of people saying I can brake more efficently without.
Yes maybe in a controlled environment you can?
Unfortunately it doesn't happen like that in the real world & there is lots of qualified research to back it up.
ABS will be mandated by the legislators in due course.
You can't think faster than a mirco processor.......fact........you are human & subject to the physical design attributts of the human body.
When the adreinlin rush kicks in you, your muscles "will" overreact and that also applies to your fingers!

When your brain is trying to process all the data you are presented with in a threat situation, you don't have to worry about over reacting on the brake lever and maintain control.

I do find the Bandit brakes a bit spongy at the best of times but I don't believe it's a trait of the ABS units only. Triumph has superb feel with it's ABS units! It can be accompolished.........!

Going down a steep loose gravel road the other day my non ABS rear wheel kept locking up at the slightest toutch of the pedal.
Never having ridden an ABS bike i'm curious how it would have reacted in the same situation.?

Two weeks ago I was coming back from a ride to Agnes Waters in very heavy rain. I came up over a hill and came upon some very poorly marked roadworks ( no signs at all) and a dude with a stop sign was standing there holding up a couple of cars. I hit the brakes ( and hit em hard )and veered around them and I know the ABS was a godsend. I'll never have another bike without it now.

gus wrote:Going down a steep loose gravel road the other day my non ABS rear wheel kept locking up at the slightest toutch of the pedal.
Never having ridden an ABS bike i'm curious how it would have reacted in the same situation.?

The back wheel won't lock. You'll feel it pulsing on and off. It can be disconcerting in gravel as that can feel like nothing much is happening, but the best thing front wheel-wise is that you won't end up on your face. A few years ago I was riding down a hill road in the rain, narrow tar-sealed road, and a guy in a car came up the opposite way with his lights on full. I moved left, front brake lightly applied to slow and get out of his way, and there was some light gravel on the roadside. Front wheel instantly locked and I went down without the slightest warning. I couldn't see the gravel and it wouldn't have happened if I'd had ABS. (Suzukis in those days were lucky to have disk brakes).

Broken clutch lever and bruised dignity....

There was an interesting article in AMCN a month or so ago about ABS in relation to safety.

In short, the jury is out as to whether there are any real safety benefits from ABS, particularly if it were to become mandatory. Studies in some overseas countries found that drivers with ABS were more likely to take risks than drivers without ABS, which tends to counter the safety of ABS.

On ancedotal evidence this makes sense. Drivers today are wrapped in crumple zones, air bags, ABS, traction control, stability control and are remote from the environment around them. Many seem to have the theory "I'm alright, I've got all these safety devices protecting me so I can drive like a lunatic".

I've only ridden a couple of BMW's with ABS and to be honest I found the telelever front end more disconcerting than the ABS.

I don't know, I don't think I'd spend the extra money to get ABS as an optional extra, but it could be a deciding factor if it came to a close decision between 2 bikes - one with ABS as standard and an other without.

Insurance statistics show that motorcycles equipped with ABS result in fewer claims than those without (depending on the study generally in the 20% - 40% less range).

One example:

"According to the results of a study conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) in the US, anti-lock brakes (ABS) for motorcycles reduce the chances of crashing. The study indicates that motorcycles equipped with ABS are 37% less likely to be involved in a fatal crash. A separate analysis by the affiliated Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) also says that bikes with ABS have 22% fewer claims for damage per insured vehicle year."

Infer from that what you will.

I bought an ABS model and glad I did. I haven't needed it yet, but figured the extra $500 was worth it for when that "oh shiiiit" moment comes along.

To each to their own.

grover

My ABS has paid for itself dodging a suicidal roo!

Throw away the standard front pads & replace them with some Ferodo Sintered or EBC HH pads. You'll then find the thing wants to stop!

ABS all the way.
i havnt ever needed to use it. but like most people say, its good to know its there when i need it.
On gravel, it does cut in fairly easily. but that doesnt worry me. i dont use it for off roading.