Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

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Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  truck on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 12:38 pm

Gday Bandit Bretheren and Sisterens,
I'm old school Christian and am encouraging a no vote. I believe marriage should be exclusively between a man and a woman.
I've heard the argument - it is none of my business what others do so long as no one is getting hurt by it, unfortunately I think people will get hurt by it in the future by simply disagreeing, people will be labelled homophobic/hater/bigoted etc. I don't hate any one.
My children / grand children will be taught in school this is normal behaviour and should be tried - it isn't, it's a choice.
I think the future for persons with my POV is grim. I know people who have been hauled over the coals for disagreeing with the yes vote. sadly I know of homosexuals who have also been hauled over the coals or worse.

I think if we had a vote on aboriginal rights back in the 70s we should be able to vote on this.

Sadly the old adage' the squeaky wheel gets the most oil" rings true and the SSM advocates are winning this.

Regards,

truck
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  Chook on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 1:42 pm

I was hoping this subject would be kept out of this site..


I have my beliefs, I know what I feel is the right thing, I also know others have their own view.


I have no desire to try and push those beliefs onto others


FWIW, I hope this topic gets deleted, I don't think this is the right place to debate it  Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  truck on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 3:11 pm

Appreciate your comment Chook.

I've always thought the "Off topic" thread was anything to do with non motor cycle subjects hence why I posted it there.
This is a great forum with intelligent members and I've always thought we could discuss anything (within reason) without fear of ridicule or banning Smile

I'm mostly happy to discuss other viewpoints and discussion, whether they agree or disagree with mine.

I'll leave it to the mods if they want to delete the thread.

Take it easy.
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  Chook on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 3:55 pm

BTW, all eligible voters were required to vote on aboriginal rights, no one has to vote on this, IMHO, should have been voted on in parliament (that's what they are elected to do), if not then a full referendum at the same time as the next election (cheaper to do it with a election)
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  BanditDave on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 6:03 pm

After 60+ years as a Christian, I converted to Pastafarianism.

We get to wear colanders on our heads and have "speak like a pirate day". How cool is that Very Happy

As I understand it, marriages within the Pastafariam religion are now officially recognised in New Zealand and Canada (there is another country as well but I forget!)

I think most Pastafarians would not have an issue with SSM, probably wouldn't give a rat's arse!

Check us out at www.pastafarians.org.au

BTW I don't remember receiving a membership certificate to the Christian faith but I certainly have a Pastafarian certificate.

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  paul on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 6:25 pm

Well the subject has been raised now , so I will buy in ..............
Regardless of if you agree or disagree with same sex marriage or not , certain legal points need to be addressed . Both married and defacto male female relationships both have safeguards in the event of either the death of one partner , or in the case of a split between partners to protect the other partner ..............same sex relationships are not recognized in the same way  , nor when it comes to medical emergencies .  I suppose if they both are unemployed they could also both claim the dole if they lived together in an unrecognized relationship unlike different sex partners though .
In Australia , we are expected to accept and respect anyone to our country , regardless of religion , race , or beliefs , but somehow people who happen to love someone of the same sex ( male or female ) aren't given the same privileges or rights & seem to be deemed to have to be swept under the rug as they have been for thousands of years . That hasn't gotten rid of them , & it never will . Of all the gay couples I have & now know , I have never been prayed upon or urged to convert to their way of thinking , & I believe our children are in far more danger of being influenced by radical religions than the gay society .It has been suggested we call their marriage by another  name ................a spade is a spade , & a bond between any consenting adults is still a marriage whether  it be performed in a church , or by a civil celebrant in a park , or if it is between two people of the same sex. I am yet to see anyone who is attracted to the opposite sex  with horns , or hover above the ground , they are just people , plain & simple with different views perhaps , but no more radical than a lot of other cultures we are expected to accept , and quite possibly a much older culture at that . Not all people agree with one another . Have our  (non- compulsory ) say , and accept the umpires decision .................religion , politics & should people be attracted to the same sex , are subjects which will never be agreed on .Unless you're into pasta like Dave of course LOL .

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  Ewok1958 on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:13 pm

@Chook wrote:BTW, all eligible voters were required to vote on aboriginal rights, no one has to vote on this, IMHO, should have been voted on in parliament (that's what they are elected to do), if not then a full referendum at the same time as the next election (cheaper to do it with a election)

Hate to rain on the parade but this statement is factually incorrect. The Coalition made an election promise to take a vote to the people in the form of a plebiscite - that is what they were elected to do because it WAS an election promise. The idea that it should be just left up to the elected officials was never in the equation of the current democratically elected government. That "let's just have a parliamentary vote" crap has arisen because some people can't accept a democratic decision and choose to react like anarchists, just like we saw in the USA in the form of protests post-election when the results didn't go their way, and just like we saw in the form of disgusting left-wing reactions towards certain ABC journos when the election this side of the pond didn't result in a Labor win (I'll post the links if you need them). Some people think this sort of reaction and failure to follow democratic processes is OK. Well it is NOT and never will be if you want a democratic society. 

My beef has nothing to do with SSM, it's to do with democracy and accepting the umpire's decision. Labor lost the election in 2016, fecking get over it.

No democracy = No nation.
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  reddog on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 10:31 pm

It's all a smoke screen just like the NBN was to make sure the politicians can push through shit without the public knowing. I've got a problem with the wording. I'm happy for my wife and I to be a couple to take the stupid church shit out of it partially because I'm an atheist and think everyone should be happy, so if that floats your boat so be it. Who knows, the gays might actually be happy after we allow it. I hope so. Let's move onto bigger problems
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  Chook on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 5:29 am

@Ewok1958 wrote:
@Chook wrote:BTW, all eligible voters were required to vote on aboriginal rights, no one has to vote on this, IMHO, should have been voted on in parliament (that's what they are elected to do), if not then a full referendum at the same time as the next election (cheaper to do it with a election)

Hate to rain on the parade but this statement is factually incorrect. The Coalition made an election promise to take a vote to the people in the form of a plebiscite - that is what they were elected to do because it WAS an election promise. The idea that it should be just left up to the elected officials was never in the equation of the current democratically elected government. That "let's just have a parliamentary vote" crap has arisen because some people can't accept a democratic decision and choose to react like anarchists, just like we saw in the USA in the form of protests post-election when the results didn't go their way, and just like we saw in the form of disgusting left-wing reactions towards certain ABC journos when the election this side of the pond didn't result in a Labor win (I'll post the links if you need them). Some people think this sort of reaction and failure to follow democratic processes is OK. Well it is NOT and never will be if you want a democratic society. 

My beef has nothing to do with SSM, it's to do with democracy and accepting the umpire's decision. Labor lost the election in 2016, fecking get over it.

No democracy = No nation.
From IMHO was what I personally believe should have happened, nothing to do with fact.
As for Labor v Liberal, personally I believe Labour should have taken it to the last election as a referendum too.
I'd never heard of a Plebicite until this came up, although I didn't totally disagree with a "opinion poll" I was stunned when I found out it was voluntary, I'd rather a snap shot of what the whole population want, not just those that could be bothered voting
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  truck on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 7:40 am

Pastfarinism? Good one BanditDave. I'd heard of it but thought you were joking until I opened the link. I think I'll pass.

You make valid points Paul. Sadly the Church is not the only guilty party in this but is almost always the first party mentioned when these atrocities are mentioned. I remember reading about 46? laws that were changed to give homosexual couples the exact same rights as heterosexuals a while back. (except the right to marry) I actually think right now they have more equal rights than you or me.

I agree Ewok, I think the Liberals should have been allowed to conduct their plebiscite a long time ago and Bill Shorten and co. have a lot to answer to.

As I inferred in my OP, if this gets through it will be the tip of the iceberg and we should all consider our vote and the consequences of that. I think the churches will be the first to get smashed and anyone else who opposes or speaks against it will be next.

You heard it here first . . . Thanks for the insight and conversation Gents.
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  mtbeerwah on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 10:28 am

Shocked

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  BanditDave on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 3:04 pm

Pastafarianism - The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster



celebrates Talk Like A Pirate Day on 19 September every year.

Wouldn't it be great if this was the same day as SSM was declared valid. It could become a public holiday

Arrr, Arrr, Arrr

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  paul on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 6:01 pm

@BanditDave wrote:Pastafarianism - The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster



celebrates Talk Like A Pirate Day on 19 September every year.

Wouldn't it be great if this was the same day as SSM was declared valid. It could become a public holiday

Arrr, Arrr, Arrr
Do you have to hire a parrot to put on your shoulder for talk like a pirate day ?

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  BanditDave on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 6:24 pm

Us Pastafarians are very flexible.

Maybe I could consider a guinea pig (or maybe two guinea pigs)

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  paul on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 6:31 pm

@BanditDave wrote:Us Pastafarians are very flexible.

Maybe I could consider a guinea pig (or maybe two guinea pigs)
So that would be 2 guineas ..............or two pound two in the old money........( four dollars twenty in the new ) ?

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  BanditDave on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 6:46 pm

Sorry Paul, I am not sure what you have in mind regarding guinea pigs.

I worked with a number of electricians some years ago and I understood that electrical tape was used to "bind up the guinea pig" so that they didn't burst (I'm not sure what the requirement entailed but I had some ideas!).

Can you maybe explain the process further?

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  paul on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 7:18 pm

@BanditDave wrote:Sorry Paul, I am not sure what you have in mind regarding guinea pigs.

I worked with a number of electricians some years ago and I understood that electrical tape was used to "bind up the guinea pig" so that they didn't burst (I'm not sure what the requirement entailed but I had some ideas!).

Can you maybe explain the process further?
I believe the electrical tape is to protect the guinea pig from lightening strikes .Being placed on someones shoulder with a metal colander on their head  & therefore acting as a lightening rod must be very unnerving for them .

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  BanditDave on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 8:47 pm

@paul wrote:
@BanditDave wrote:Sorry Paul, I am not sure what you have in mind regarding guinea pigs.

I worked with a number of electricians some years ago and I understood that electrical tape was used to "bind up the guinea pig" so that they didn't burst (I'm not sure what the requirement entailed but I had some ideas!).

Can you maybe explain the process further?
I believe the electrical tape is to protect the guinea pig from lightening strikes .Being placed on someones shoulder with a metal colander on their head  & therefore acting as a lightening rod must be very unnerving for them .

Thanks Paul,
Here I am thinking that the purpose of the electrical tape was somewhat weird and disgusting.
I am very relieved to have you provide a much more palatable explanation.
BTW Arrr!, Arrr!, Arrr! (sorry, I couldn't help myself) Shocked

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  madmax on Sun 27 Aug 2017, 2:47 pm

@paul wrote:
@BanditDave wrote:Pastafarianism - The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster



celebrates Talk Like A Pirate Day on 19 September every year.

Wouldn't it be great if this was the same day as SSM was declared valid. It could become a public holiday

Arrr, Arrr, Arrr
Do you have to hire a parrot to put on your shoulder for talk like a pirate day ?

Use a dead one and hot glue it to your shoulder Very Happy

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  BanditDave on Sun 27 Aug 2017, 4:33 pm

@madmax wrote:
@paul wrote:
@BanditDave wrote:Pastafarianism - The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster



celebrates Talk Like A Pirate Day on 19 September every year.

Wouldn't it be great if this was the same day as SSM was declared valid. It could become a public holiday

Arrr, Arrr, Arrr
Do you have to hire a parrot to put on your shoulder for talk like a pirate day ?

Use a dead one and hot glue it to your shoulder Very Happy


But what if the guinea pig is still alive?

Pastafarianism is a religion of peace and love, not like a lot of other religions. And we certainly don't go around slaughtering guinea pigs.

Speaking of peace and love, do you remember the Hekawi Indians from F Troop?

Oops! nearly forgot -  Arrr! Arrr! Arrr!

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  2wheelsagain on Mon 28 Aug 2017, 10:14 am

@truck wrote:Gday Bandit Bretheren and Sisterens,
I'm old school Christian and am encouraging a no vote. I believe marriage should be exclusively between a man and a woman.
I've heard the argument - it is none of my business what others do so long as no one is getting hurt by it, unfortunately I think people will get hurt by it in the future by simply disagreeing, people will be labelled homophobic/hater/bigoted etc. I don't hate any one.
My children / grand children will be taught in school this is normal behaviour and should be tried - it isn't, it's a choice.
I think the future for persons with my POV is grim. I know people who have been hauled over the coals for disagreeing with the yes vote. sadly I know of homosexuals who have also been hauled over the coals or worse.

I think if we had a vote on aboriginal rights back in the 70s we should be able to vote on this.

Sadly the old adage' the squeaky wheel gets the most oil" rings true and the SSM advocates are winning this.

Regards,

truck

I'm happy for this to continue as a respectful debate. Off topic is of topic.
However I believe two people regardless of gender are equal and should have equal rights.
The fact that people have had to hide their homosexuality has caused a host of personal and social problems. Surely schools should be teaching acceptance?
Do you know any gay people truck? Have they tried to convert you? I bet not. Most just want to be treated as equal and get on with their lives.
I don't know what Christianity has to do with it. Jesus loves all right?
I was involved in a protest last Wed outside our local papers office which printed an NO advert placed by a local hiding behind Christianity which tore strips off couples who had medical intervention to have kids. Smashed defacto couples. Segregated those fostered or adopted. Demonised single parent households and by default supported married people who had kids they didn't want or shouldn't have had. All because God said man and woman make a family apparently. We got a huge number of locals to return the newspaper and had the policy of placing and accepting paid adverts changed. Until then I didn't have an opinion Yes or No but when someone hides behind Christianity to sprout absolute crap that gets my blood boiling.
I'll be voting Yes because I see a person. Not their sexuality.

We no longer flog or stone sinners so times change.

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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  rolls on Mon 28 Aug 2017, 10:38 am

@2wheelsagain wrote:I'm happy for this to continue as a respectful debate. Off topic is of topic.
However I believe two people regardless of gender are equal and should have equal rights.
The fact that people have had to hide their homosexuality has caused a host of personal and social problems. Surely schools should be teaching acceptance?
Do you know any gay people truck? Have they tried to convert you? I bet not. Most just want to be treated as equal and get on with their lives.
I don't know what Christianity has to do with it. Jesus loves all right?
I was involved in a protest last Wed outside our local papers office which printed an NO advert placed by a local hiding behind Christianity which tore strips off couples who had medical intervention to have kids. Smashed defacto couples. Segregated those fostered or adopted. Demonised single parent households and by default supported married people who had kids they didn't want or shouldn't have had. All because God said man and woman make a family apparently. We got a huge number of locals to return the newspaper and had the policy of placing and accepting paid adverts changed. Until then I didn't have an opinion Yes or No but when someone hides behind Christianity to sprout absolute crap that gets my blood boiling.
I'll be voting Yes because I see a person. Not their sexuality.

We no longer flog or stone sinners so times change.

Good one 2WA.   +1
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  gus on Mon 28 Aug 2017, 3:08 pm

+ 2  . Its not going to worry me if the 2 gay people next door are married or not. As long as they help me if I get hit by a car , that's what matters .
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  Bill & Ted on Mon 28 Aug 2017, 3:41 pm

+3  Be excellent to each other.
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Re: Pleboscite - Keep this respectful

Post  Paul 1250 on Mon 28 Aug 2017, 5:25 pm

I had a very close relative that was gay, he passed away about 6 years ago to cancer, when he was trying to set up his will and provide his  superannuation company with his next of kin he encounted many many problems because he was not married, he and his partner had been together for nearly 30 years.
I believe since then some things have changed but I know how difficult it was when he had to do it plus dealing with life ending cancer.
Right wrong or otherwise I  dont see  a problem in same sex marriage 

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