Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 8:44 pm

This time in SA, it was issued as a formal caution for "Breach of ADRs" FFS!!

Helmets aren't covered by ADRs, they are referred to in Australian Standards and The Road Rules, another case of law enforcers not knowing the legislation they enforce and interpreting legislation differently than it's intent

https://www.facebook.com/7NewsAdelaide/videos/1461548683875782/

Title edited by admin (infringement wasn't issued)
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  reddog on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 10:51 pm

Some of those comments are retarded.  I feel like i lost IQ points after reading that article.


Last edited by reddog on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
reddog

Posts : 2365
Join date : 2010-09-27
Age : 39
Location : Allanson WA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 5:17 am

I've got to agree re: comments reddog, reading through the rubbish being posted, there's not too many relevant or helpful comments in there.
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  2wheelsagain on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 9:13 am

Its a very grey area and still open to interpretation depending on jurisdiction and defendable depending on the size of your legal wallet but lets stick to the facts please otherwise it will always be a grey area if we cant even get the story straight within the riding community. sunny

_________________
My posts reflect my personal  experience or opinion. You don't have to agree with me.
~ Chris ~
~ 0466 Ask ~
~ My Photography Blog Page ~
~ My YouTube Channel ~
~ Suzuki Bandits Australia Facebook Page ~
~ Half hr from the hills. Two minutes from the coast ~

~ My Bikes ~
Graphite 2014 VFR1200F - How Fast Do You Want To Tour?
Silver 2014 MV Agusta B3 Brutale 800 - Triple Treat
avatar
2wheelsagain
Admin

Posts : 6197
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 53
Location : Sale Area Vic

View user profile https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU-axKVr_wDILSSK0-8GQ1A

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 12:33 pm

I spoke with the DPTI Vehicle Standards people this morning (I work in the next office to them)

Despite being told by the Senior Standards Officer about 12 months ago that so long as you didn't screw or drill into the helmet a camera mounted to it's shell was not a breach of the standards, today his boss informed me they have been taking the stance that any adhesive whatsoever applied to a helmet shell is a breach of the Road Rules/Australian Standard.
He also stated that when asked by SAPOL motorcycle police exactly that, he had advised them exactly the same. Despite that advise most if not all, SAPOL helmets have the same self adhesive tape attaching their cameras to their helmets. (I've seen 3 today alone)

I don't think we've heard the end of this one, I hope common sense prevails and both SAPOL and the public get to keep their camera mounts on their helmets
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  reddog on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 8:28 pm

What do they think the as1698 stickers are affixed to the helmet with? It is absolute rubbish just like the as1698 bollocks
avatar
reddog

Posts : 2365
Join date : 2010-09-27
Age : 39
Location : Allanson WA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 8:32 pm

@reddog wrote:What do they think the as1698 stickers are affixed to the helmet with? It is absolute rubbish just like the as1698 bollocks

I agree but their "logic" is that the helmet manufacturers know what the adhesive on the sticker is (no sure if they really would myself?) and claim it wont effect the shell, they can't be sure other adhesives wont effect the shell though.

To me it's clutching at straws and being way over cautious/over zealous etc.but that's the nanny state (and country) we live in
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  paul on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 9:44 pm

@Chook wrote:I spoke with the DPTI Vehicle Standards people this morning (I work in the next office to them)

Despite being told by the Senior Standards Officer about 12 months ago that so long as you didn't screw or drill into the helmet a camera mounted to it's shell was not a breach of the standards, today his boss informed me they have been taking the stance that any adhesive whatsoever applied to a helmet shell is a breach of the Road Rules/Australian Standard.
He also stated that when asked by SAPOL motorcycle police exactly that, he had advised them exactly the same. Despite that advise most if not all, SAPOL helmets have the same self adhesive tape attaching their cameras to their helmets. (I've seen 3 today alone)

I don't think we've heard the end of this one, I hope common sense prevails and both SAPOL and the public get to keep their camera mounts on their helmets
So does that rule also apply to all helmets ...........including bicycle ?

_________________
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.






avatar
paul

Posts : 6956
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 64
Location : Morphett Vale Sth. Aust.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 7:40 am

[quote="paul"]
@Chook wrote:I spoke with the DPTI Vehicle Standards people this morning (I work in the next office to them)

Despite being told by the Senior Standards Officer about 12 months ago that so long as you didn't screw or drill into the helmet a camera mounted to it's shell was not a breach of the standards, today his boss informed me they have been taking the stance that any adhesive whatsoever applied to a helmet shell is a breach of the Road Rules/Australian Standard.
He also stated that when asked by SAPOL motorcycle police exactly that, he had advised them exactly the same. Despite that advise most if not all, SAPOL helmets have the same self adhesive tape attaching their cameras to their helmets. (I've seen 3 today alone)

I don't think we've heard the end of this one, I hope common sense prevails and both SAPOL and the public get to keep their camera mounts on their helmets
So does that rule also apply to all helmets ...........including bicycle ?[/quo

I don't know what the Australian Standard for push bike helmets states, if there is mention of adding components, using adhesives etc then possibly it would
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  madmax on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 7:45 am

So being as my Sena 20S is clamped to the helmet (not drilled, screwed or glued) does that then mean it is ok?

Although not a camera it still fits the description of "helmet attachment".

This shit is getting ridiculous!


_________________
2011 GSX1250FA in Candy Indy Blue
avatar
madmax

Posts : 3869
Join date : 2011-10-19
Age : 53
Location : Carrum Downs, Victoria

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 7:59 am

@madmax wrote:So being as my Sena 20S is clamped to the helmet (not drilled, screwed or glued) does that then mean it is ok?



That's how I'm reading it and I'm keeping my Scala on mine
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  paul on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 9:24 am

channel 7 news tonight are doing a story on motorcycles , pushbikes & coppers using cameras & the legality of them ..................(just seen it advertised, might only be Adelaide though ??? )

_________________
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.






avatar
paul

Posts : 6956
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 64
Location : Morphett Vale Sth. Aust.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  paul on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 7:27 pm

@paul wrote:channel 7 news tonight are doing a story on motorcycles , pushbikes & coppers using cameras & the legality of them ..................(just seen it advertised, might only be Adelaide though ??? )
Nothing new here on the matter ...............it was just saying cyclists want it clarified because they are afraid they will be targeted  next

_________________
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.






avatar
paul

Posts : 6956
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 64
Location : Morphett Vale Sth. Aust.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  barry_mcki on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 8:52 pm

This has been going on and off for a number of years and nothing has really been settled in court or elsewhere, so maybe it would be a good thing to target the push-bike riders.  

Their lobby group is much stronger than motorcyclist, i.e. they now have cycle lanes, 1.5m passing clearance, own safety zones at some intersections, had the law changed so crossing over double lines is legal, etc.  If a couple of those lycra cladded Macquarie Street lawyers were hit with infringements for attaching cameras to their helmets the matter would be resolved in a matter of days.

_________________
Hacks - more smiles per mile  



Red 2007 GSF-1250S with SRK Premier Sidecar
avatar
barry_mcki

Posts : 1613
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 60
Location : Hillwood, Tasmania

View user profile http://g.co/maps/vb84k

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  paul on Wed 01 Mar 2017, 8:36 am

@barry_mcki wrote:This has been going on and off for a number of years and nothing has really been settled in court or elsewhere, so maybe it would be a good thing to target the push-bike riders.  

Their lobby group is much stronger than motorcyclist, i.e. they now have cycle lanes, 1.5m passing clearance, own safety zones at some intersections, had the law changed so crossing over double lines is legal, etc.  If a couple of those lycra cladded Macquarie Street lawyers were hit with infringements for attaching cameras to their helmets the matter would be resolved in a matter of days.
Good point.......

_________________
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.






avatar
paul

Posts : 6956
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 64
Location : Morphett Vale Sth. Aust.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  madmax on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 8:33 am

@barry_mcki wrote:This has been going on and off for a number of years and nothing has really been settled in court or elsewhere, so maybe it would be a good thing to target the push-bike riders.  

Their lobby group is much stronger than motorcyclist, i.e. they now have cycle lanes, 1.5m passing clearance, own safety zones at some intersections, had the law changed so crossing over double lines is legal, etc.  If a couple of those lycra cladded Macquarie Street lawyers were hit with infringements for attaching cameras to their helmets the matter would be resolved in a matter of days.

Victoria has a legal  precedent. Thankfully common sense won in this particular case
link

_________________
2011 GSX1250FA in Candy Indy Blue
avatar
madmax

Posts : 3869
Join date : 2011-10-19
Age : 53
Location : Carrum Downs, Victoria

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  barry_mcki on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 8:53 am

Can't get onto the Herald sites (it's a paid subscription by the looks of it) however from memory this case was dismissed due to the standard not being available for the public to access free of charge - they now have 1 hard copy (I. E. Not on line) - in the bows of a govt building where you need security access to get into. The actual legality of attaching the camera was not tested in the appeal. 

Also a legal prescient can only be set in a higher court, even if one magistrate did say it was ok another can rule opposite.  

They need to stop trying to enforce a manufacturing / sales standard onto a everyday use situation. Technically you are breaching the standard by taking the helmet out of the box.

_________________
Hacks - more smiles per mile  



Red 2007 GSF-1250S with SRK Premier Sidecar
avatar
barry_mcki

Posts : 1613
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 60
Location : Hillwood, Tasmania

View user profile http://g.co/maps/vb84k

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Chook on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 11:47 am

@barry_mcki wrote:.................... however from memory this case was dismissed due to the standard not being available for the public to access free of charge -

The actual legality of attaching the camera was not tested in the appeal. 

Correct, that was the most disappointing thing with that decision, the legal standing/interpretation etc of the alleged offence was never addressed

Why Standards Australia is a private organisation is beyond me, as soon as their standards are referred to in legislation by default the standard becomes legislation, if legislation is not freely available to all it is unconstitutional
avatar
Chook

Posts : 2932
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 52
Location : Between the City and Beach, Adelaide

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/?fref=ts

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  madmax on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 3:44 pm

@barry_mcki wrote:Can't get onto the Herald sites (it's a paid subscription by the looks of it)

That's strange I could get on it earlier today but not now. So I can't confirm if that was how it panned out in the end.
You might be right though, IIRC there was something about the legislation not being easily available to the public

_________________
2011 GSX1250FA in Candy Indy Blue
avatar
madmax

Posts : 3869
Join date : 2011-10-19
Age : 53
Location : Carrum Downs, Victoria

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  madmax on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 8:29 am

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/video/watch/34522690/sa-cyclists-demand-helmet-cam-use-be-made-legal/#page1

_________________
2011 GSX1250FA in Candy Indy Blue
avatar
madmax

Posts : 3869
Join date : 2011-10-19
Age : 53
Location : Carrum Downs, Victoria

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Another helmet cam mount formal caution notice issued

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum