Whats the future

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Whats the future

Post  gus on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 7:58 pm

I was looking at all the new bikes parked outside the local café last weekend .I realised my newest bike is a 2005 model .That's 12 years old .No mode selection ,
no launch control ,traction control ,not even ABS . Its quite obvious , i'm stuck in the past .
What confuses me is ,who is going to buy a second hand modern bike with 50,000 kls on the clock when the electronics start to play up .I guess its "no fix mate ,
you need a new computer ,$2000 thanks to stop the light flashing ".
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Re: Whats the future

Post  paul on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 8:26 pm

As with a lot of stuff these days , things are unfortunately becoming a disposable ( and recycle ) commodity . Hopefully there will always be tinkerers to keep some of what we have alive .

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Re: Whats the future

Post  Chalkie on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:30 pm

Fortunately I know a tinkerer and got a Yammie off him - thanks Gus bounce
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Re: Whats the future

Post  Ewok1958 on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 10:57 pm

@gus wrote:I was looking at all the new bikes parked outside the local café last weekend .I realised my newest bike is a 2005 model .That's 12 years old .No mode selection ,
no launch control ,traction control ,not even ABS . Its quite obvious , i'm stuck in the past .
What confuses me is ,who is going to buy a second hand modern bike with 50,000 kls on the clock when the electronics start to play up .I guess its "no fix mate ,
you need a new computer ,$2000 thanks to stop the light flashing ".

Yep, there is a level of additional complexity that comes with electronic everything, and that includes lean angle sensors, gyros, transducers, etc as well as the central computer and the software that has to sort out all of the inputs and react properly. Is it worth it? People who ride these bikes will say yes but I suspect you are right on the button Gus when you cite high costs and disposable sealed units when it comes to repairs. I I prefer things to be simpler - less to go wrong and lower costs to repair.

Off the top of my head, here's a simple word picture of the development that has lead to this increasing complexity (sticking to 4-strokes):
* air-cooled, with carbs - our simple baseline for comparison purposes
* liquid cooled with carbs - additional pieces: radiator, water-pipes, thermostat, water-pump, temp gauge, coolant overflow bottle
* liquid cooled with fuel injection - additional pieces: as above plus ECU, fuel pump, high pressure fuel lines, CO2 sensor, PAIRS
* liquid cooled with fuel injection and ABS - additional pieces: as above plus brake rotor sensors, anti-lock software
* liquid cooled with fuel injection, selectable engine maps and ABS - additional pieces: as above plus electronic throttle, throttle position sensors, fuel flow control valves, multiple engine maps across all gears, and revs
* liquid cooled with fuel injection, selectable engine maps, ABS and launch control, traction control, wheelie control, lean control, etc - additional pieces: as above plus even more sensors, feedback loops, gyroscopes, even more complex fuel maps and interactions between all those controllers/sensors and the fuel delivery system.

But it is the way of the world to exploit our ability to package more and more computing power into smaller and smaller packages.

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Re: Whats the future

Post  Ewok1958 on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 7:20 am

I should add that the above "model" of technology is overly simple. It ignore technologies that manufacturers have found along the way to introduce, such as:
Yamaha: EXUP valves on 2nd gen FZR1000
Honda: VTEC valve operation on 2nd gen VFR800
Suzuki: even the relatively simple Bandit 1250 has a bank of secondary butterfly valves on the intake tracts

The list of "additional" complications is probably endless, and the future will include these extra technologies in addition to ever increasing electronics.
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Re: Whats the future

Post  gus on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 9:02 am

Could it be a 2017 motorcycle costing $25,000 with be practically worthless when electronics start to age ?
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Re: Whats the future

Post  barry_mcki on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 5:59 pm

You get rid of a most of the engine electronics with a lithium based power plant, though there are other black boxes that will replace them.

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Re: Whats the future

Post  Ewok1958 on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:27 pm

What about Back to the Future? Is $5000 too much for a 1997 FZR1000 (pre-EXUP)?

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Very nice, but better if it was ~$4k.
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Re: Whats the future

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