Driverless Cars

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Driverless Cars

Post  BanditDave on Thu 05 Nov 2015, 6:48 am

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I posted this on another forum but I thought you folk might also enjoy the discussion

Driverless Cars
Just been doing some reading on the technology behind the idea.

All is fine until the car is put in a situation where a challenging decision needs to be made.

Incidentally, this issue seems to have been debated since the 1960's and doesn't seem to have been resolved even today.

A common example is known as the "Trolley Problem".

A rail trolley (train??) is travelling along at speed and ahead of it are 5 people.
If the trolley continues on it's present course the 5 people will be killed.
You are standing to one side of the track and witnessing this event.
There is a lever that if you operate it will change the trolley to an alternative track thus avoiding the 5 people.
Unfortunately, there is a single person on the alternative track who will be killed if you operate the lever.

Your choices are:-
1. Do nothing and 5 people will be killed
2. Pull the lever to save the 5 people and only kill 1 person

The driverless car needs to be programmed to make such a decision.
Which is the correct decision?

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  Chook on Sun 08 Nov 2015, 12:40 pm

BanditDave wrote:It makes perfect sense to me to use rail freight instead of road freight.

I would also suggest it would be cheaper per ton of freight.

Also there is not the same level of interaction with trains running on tracks away from the roads.

Am I missing something in my thinking??
My thoughts exactly.

The only thing rail can't do is door to door and generally by the time your freight is loaded, delivered to the rail site, tranported across Australia, unloaded, re transported by road to it's destination it's about 2 days behind the load that was delivered by road. I'd love to see rail increased and less Road Trains and B Double/Triples on the road but most of us want it now and to our door
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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  madmax on Sun 08 Nov 2015, 2:43 pm

Chook wrote:
BanditDave wrote:It makes perfect sense to me to use rail freight instead of road freight.

I would also suggest it would be cheaper per ton of freight.

Also there is not the same level of interaction with trains running on tracks away from the roads.

Am I missing something in my thinking??
My thoughts exactly.

The only thing rail can't do is door to door and generally by the time your freight is loaded, delivered to the rail site, tranported across Australia, unloaded, re transported by road to it's destination it's about 2 days behind the load that was delivered by road. I'd love to see rail increased and less Road Trains and B Double/Triples on the road but most of us want it now and to our door

Our steel now comes by train from Port Kembla down to Hastings, and for us it should be door to door. Unfortunately because of the difference in gauges (standard to broad) the steel gets held up at the Melbourne steel terminal. The problem is so bad that a couple of months ago we had to bring down a load via ship and they are thinking of doing another soon. Currently they are supplementing our stock with trucks.

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  Bosco15 on Sun 08 Nov 2015, 6:29 pm


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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  mtbeerwah on Sun 08 Nov 2015, 7:15 pm

Bosco15 wrote:
Pfft!  It's been done years ago. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVR7dm2Fw9E&feature=youtube_gdata_player

ha ha ha ha , sadly, I think I remember those ads.

I do like how the ad finishes, good ol Evil, taking a back breaking stack...RIP!!
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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  Ewok1958 on Sun 08 Nov 2015, 7:47 pm

We already have driverless cars in the form of hands-of-the-wheel reverse parking! Seems harmless enough in that application, but are there any lawsuits that have been launched (particularly in the good old USA) where the driver disclaimed responsibility because he wasn't actually driving the vehicle when the software failure occurred (bound to happen sooner or later isn't it?). No doubt (in my mind) that the driver remains responsible for the vehicle in such a situation but you know the litigious state of mind over the pond.

Other examples where 'responsibility' has been taken away from the cager driver and placed in the hands of software or other automation are: automatic transmissions, ABS, traction control, swerve control, parking assist, etc. Some of these exist on bike too.

But full removal of the driver input under all situation? Kinda seems inevitable at some point in the future when you extrapolate from the above-mentioned trends.

But I'll still want the car that gives me the control thanks.
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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  BanditDave on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:34 am

If there is still  a driver in the vehicle (I'm thinking commercial vehicle) then I don't see any cost savings as you are still paying wages.

The vehicle also needs a seating position for the driver along with all associated controls.

Looking from a different angle I wonder if we are just a little safer with robot driven cars. I've certainly had my share of frights with the human kind.

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  madmax on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:13 pm

Ewok1958 wrote:
Kinda seems inevitable at some point in the future


I doubt it. If there is no driver , who are they going to fine? In fact if the computer isn't breaking the law where are the governments going to get half their revenue?

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  Chook on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:06 pm

I've had 5 hrs listening to various radio stations on the way to Mt Gambier this morning, a couple were disc using the Driverless car and wanted listeners reactions, most weren't favourable but a "legally blind" elder gentleman came on the line and he is excited that people like him may no longer have top rely on others to get around.
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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  paul on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:25 pm

Chook wrote:I've had 5 hrs listening to various radio stations on the way to Mt Gambier this morning, a couple were disc using the Driverless car and wanted listeners reactions, most weren't favourable but a "legally blind" elder gentleman came on the line and he is excited that people like him may no longer have top rely on others to get around.
I think like cruise control , someone will still have to monitor the vehicle to an extent .

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  mtbeerwah on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:07 pm

I`m still missing the point.

Why would I buy something, I`m not going to drive, but still have to:  

insure, (????)  
rego, 
fuel it (be it electric, hybrid, fossil fuel, etc)
service
tyres
depreciation,

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....I wouldn`t.  
If I got to the point,  I wasn`t capable of driving anymore,  I`d go public transport, and save my money. 
Even if I had to use a cab for certain things, to get me exactly where I wanted to go, it would still be cheaper, than the big picture, cost.
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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  paul on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:16 pm

mtbeerwah wrote:I`m still missing the point.

Why would I buy something, I`m not going to drive, but still have to:  

insure, (????)  
rego, 
fuel it (be it electric, hybrid, fossil fuel, etc)
service
tyres
depreciation,

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....I wouldn`t.  
If I got to the point,  I wasn`t capable of driving anymore,  I`d go public transport, and save my money. 
Even if I had to use a cab for certain things, to get me exactly where I wanted to go, it would still be cheaper, than the big picture, cost.
I think it is the next step on from cruise control ........traction control ...ABS..........self parking cars.........etc etc . the problem is the basic skills of driving will be lost as more people rely on technology ..........& we all know how reliable computers / programs can be  Rolling Eyes . Unfortunately , drivers will become as inept at driving as some shop assistants are with simple arithmetic without their till or calculator when the power goes out; if their cars computer goes on the blink .

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  Bosco15 on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 9:15 pm

paul wrote:
mtbeerwah wrote:I`m still missing the point.

Why would I buy something, I`m not going to drive, but still have to:  

insure, (????)  
rego, 
fuel it (be it electric, hybrid, fossil fuel, etc)
service
tyres
depreciation,

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....I wouldn`t.  
If I got to the point,  I wasn`t capable of driving anymore,  I`d go public transport, and save my money. 
Even if I had to use a cab for certain things, to get me exactly where I wanted to go, it would still be cheaper, than the big picture, cost.
I think it is the next step on from cruise control ........traction control ...ABS..........self parking cars.........etc etc . the problem is the basic skills of driving will be lost as more people rely on technology ..........& we all know how reliable computers / programs can be  Rolling Eyes . Unfortunately , drivers will become as inept at driving as some shop assistants are with simple arithmetic without their till or calculator when the power goes out; if their cars computer goes on the blink .

You made me laugh, Paul. 
One of my things is to minimise change in my pocket. I often face confused looks when i fish out some change and hand it to the dimwit behind the till after handing over notes. 
If they have already keyed in the value of the note and are suddenly confronted with an extra 25c, you can see panic start to set in. I love to watch them squirm and try to do the simple maths (with an s). 
I have noticed that Aldi employees have to use this rapidly disappearing skill with each and every customer, as they do not have a calculator telling them how much change to hand out.
 Kudos Aldi. Very Happy

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  Bosco15 on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 9:23 pm

Just had another thought about driverless cars. 
I can see them sitting on the side of the road, out of fuel. 
If I'm not driving,  I'm sure as hell not going to be monitoring the fuel guage. 
I guess that the computer will have to figure out how to get someone to push it. Razz

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  2wheelsagain on Tue 10 Nov 2015, 6:32 pm

Bosco15 wrote:Just had another thought about driverless cars. 
I can see them sitting on the side of the road, out of fuel. 
If I'm not driving,  I'm sure as hell not going to be monitoring the fuel guage. 
I guess that the computer will have to figure out how to get someone to push it. Razz
We seem to have driverless cars at work. Every time I get in one of the others it needs fuel. 
The only one that seems legit is my Hilux:roll:

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  BanditDave on Wed 11 Nov 2015, 7:26 am

Bosco15 wrote:
paul wrote:
mtbeerwah wrote:I`m still missing the point.

Why would I buy something, I`m not going to drive, but still have to:  

insure, (????)  
rego, 
fuel it (be it electric, hybrid, fossil fuel, etc)
service
tyres
depreciation,

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....I wouldn`t.  
If I got to the point,  I wasn`t capable of driving anymore,  I`d go public transport, and save my money. 
Even if I had to use a cab for certain things, to get me exactly where I wanted to go, it would still be cheaper, than the big picture, cost.
I think it is the next step on from cruise control ........traction control ...ABS..........self parking cars.........etc etc . the problem is the basic skills of driving will be lost as more people rely on technology ..........& we all know how reliable computers / programs can be  Rolling Eyes . Unfortunately , drivers will become as inept at driving as some shop assistants are with simple arithmetic without their till or calculator when the power goes out; if their cars computer goes on the blink .

You made me laugh, Paul. 
One of my things is to minimise change in my pocket. I often face confused looks when i fish out some change and hand it to the dimwit behind the till after handing over notes. 
If they have already keyed in the value of the note and are suddenly confronted with an extra 25c, you can see panic start to set in. I love to watch them squirm and try to do the simple maths (with an s). 
I have noticed that Aldi employees have to use this rapidly disappearing skill with each and every customer, as they do not have a calculator telling them how much change to hand out.
 Kudos Aldi. Very Happy


A new technique I am experimenting with at present that you might wish to try.



I go to a local bakery every Friday and last week the young girl who served me advised my total was $5.50.



I opened my wallet and dropped all of the coins on the counter and asked her "do you think that will be enough"



Her look of absolute terror told me that she could not cope with this approach.


Between us we made $1.00 stacks only to discover there wasn't $5.50 and I was forced to get a $20 note from my wallet.

She went to take only the $20.00 note and leave the change but I picked up $0.50 and handed it to her.

Somehow I don't think I am on her Christmas card list.

I must make a point of keeping lots of change in my wallet for similar situations in the future.



Don't mess with older people Twisted Evil Twisted Evil


What has this got to do with driverless cars???

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Re: Driverless Cars

Post  paul on Wed 11 Nov 2015, 9:12 am

BanditDave wrote:
Bosco15 wrote:
paul wrote:
mtbeerwah wrote:I`m still missing the point.

Why would I buy something, I`m not going to drive, but still have to:  

insure, (????)  
rego, 
fuel it (be it electric, hybrid, fossil fuel, etc)
service
tyres
depreciation,

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....I wouldn`t.  
If I got to the point,  I wasn`t capable of driving anymore,  I`d go public transport, and save my money. 
Even if I had to use a cab for certain things, to get me exactly where I wanted to go, it would still be cheaper, than the big picture, cost.
I think it is the next step on from cruise control ........traction control ...ABS..........self parking cars.........etc etc . the problem is the basic skills of driving will be lost as more people rely on technology ..........& we all know how reliable computers / programs can be  Rolling Eyes . Unfortunately , drivers will become as inept at driving as some shop assistants are with simple arithmetic without their till or calculator when the power goes out; if their cars computer goes on the blink .

You made me laugh, Paul. 
One of my things is to minimise change in my pocket. I often face confused looks when i fish out some change and hand it to the dimwit behind the till after handing over notes. 
If they have already keyed in the value of the note and are suddenly confronted with an extra 25c, you can see panic start to set in. I love to watch them squirm and try to do the simple maths (with an s). 
I have noticed that Aldi employees have to use this rapidly disappearing skill with each and every customer, as they do not have a calculator telling them how much change to hand out.
 Kudos Aldi. Very Happy


A new technique I am experimenting with at present that you might wish to try.



I go to a local bakery every Friday and last week the young girl who served me advised my total was $5.50.



I opened my wallet and dropped all of the coins on the counter and asked her "do you think that will be enough"



Her look of absolute terror told me that she could not cope with this approach.


Between us we made $1.00 stacks only to discover there wasn't $5.50 and I was forced to get a $20 note from my wallet.

She went to take only the $20.00 note and leave the change but I picked up $0.50 and handed it to her.

Somehow I don't think I am on her Christmas card list.

I must make a point of keeping lots of change in my wallet for similar situations in the future.



Don't mess with older people Twisted Evil Twisted Evil


What has this got to do with driverless cars???
Maybe it will give people time to work on their arithmetic skills instead of having to watch what's going on around them Laughing ................oh hang on a minute, that's right , a lot of them already don't watch what's going on around them  Evil or Very Mad

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