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Warning about HIDs

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Post  madmax Mon 09 Mar 2015, 2:36 pm

On my trip back from Parkes today. Whilst rolling slowly into the town of Yarck I was pulled over by a unmarked police car. He had been sitting on the side of the road looking suspiciously like a camera car.

The first thing he asked me was if it was a HID headlight. I played dumb and he went on to explaining HID and why we can't have them.

Now what I don't understand is this shit about self levelling and the need to have a washer for them?
The cop explained that on riding up a hill at night as you reach the crest the light beam would be pointed upwards and blind oncoming traffic. Wouldn't the same thing occur with halogen?
Regardless of the road angle the light beam is still pointed down at the same angle, this angle doesn't change with halogen. Is this just some bullshit reason to stop people changing their lights to HID
He went on to explain expensive European cars such as Porsche, BMW, Mercs, and Audis have self levelling lights and washer jets to clean the lens, wtf for?

At least the cop was a good bloke and let me of with a verbal warning about getting it sorted asap. Then just made it a licence check and a breatho.

Now what do I do?
The HID's have been there for over 3 years, no oncoming traffic has ever flashed me, no other cop has ever been concerned enough to pull me over. Did this one pull me over because of how white it is.
Maybe a new HID bulb with a warmer colour temp would make it less recognisable as a HID light.

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Post  Re-Cycled Mon 09 Mar 2015, 4:00 pm

madmax wrote:
Maybe a new HID bulb with a warmer colour temp would make it less recognisable as a HID light.
That sounds like a plan. I'm glad you didn't get a souvenir from your new friend.

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Post  paul Mon 09 Mar 2015, 4:03 pm

turbo-brian was asking about this recently ...............

https://nswbandits.forumotion.net/t5381-hid-installation

Unless there is a crack down on them in that state Question , I would probably let it go unless you find they keep pulling you up for having them , it may just be a one off .

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Post  madmax Mon 09 Mar 2015, 4:23 pm

paul wrote:turbo-brian was asking about this recently ...............

https://nswbandits.forumotion.net/t5381-hid-installation

Unless there is a crack down on them in that state Question , I would probably let it go unless you find they keep pulling you up for having them , it may just be a one off .

I'm thinking of that, however if the next one isn't so friendly it will be down to Vicroads for a complete check over.

What I don't understand is the need for this self-levelling self cleaning shit??

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Post  paul Mon 09 Mar 2015, 4:48 pm

madmax wrote:
paul wrote:turbo-brian was asking about this recently ...............

https://nswbandits.forumotion.net/t5381-hid-installation

Unless there is a crack down on them in that state Question , I would probably let it go unless you find they keep pulling you up for having them , it may just be a one off .

I'm thinking of that, however if the next one isn't so friendly it will be down to Vicroads for a complete check over.

What I don't understand is the need for this self-levelling self cleaning shit??
Me either , maybe PM chook he may have more info about it ( maybe the self levelling sensor doesn't work if the lens is dirty ?)

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Post  paul Mon 09 Mar 2015, 5:21 pm

There was this I found 
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f14/why-you-cant-legally-retrofit-hid-lights-your-non-hid-car-56449.html

from the sites I read it seems they are more concerned with HID in dipped lights  ( low beam ) .............you could I suppose use them for high beam & just use a different globe ( daylight / night breaker type ) for low beam if that is possible .

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Post  NTBill Tue 10 Mar 2015, 12:10 am

This is a complex issue and is generally badly understood and badly enforced.

 First thing to understand is that ADR13/.. (Which deals with vehicle lighting) applies to other than L group vehicles. 

L group vehicles include motorcycles so ADR13 doesn't actually apply.

 Now, stay with me here....

ADR 13 requires self levelling and a lens wash capability for HID where the output exceeds 2000 lumens. Most HID systems will exceed this (and therefore require levelling and washers), but it's important to understand that for CARS and TRUCKS etc, there is nevertheless a threshold where it's not needed.

The reason that the levelling and wash capability is mandated for HID is because of the extremely sudden cut-off of the beam which can dazzle the hell out of oncoming drivers if set incorrectly. It's about correcting a vehicle loading issue, not to cater for going over speed bumps etc.

For MOTORCYCLES however, the relevant  lighting ADR is ADR 19/..
ADR 19/.. Is silent on HID and also on auto levelling and washers etc, so you'll find that your policeman was incorrect, as he was referring to a rule that does not apply to motorcycles. 

HOWEVER...if you go fit an HID filament into a halogen lamp assembly (housing), you've got problems simply because the beam pattern will not meet the requiremtns due to the HID filament throwing a differing light patern to the usual halogen source that the housing / reflector is designed for.

 That's where we'll generally get defected, incompatiblity, and the onus of proof will be put onto the owner to prove the mod is compliant. That'll require engineering certification and unless you've got the coin probably isn't worth persuing.

If however, a complete retrofit lamp assembly that's designed for HID filaments is fitted and adjusted correctly, then you'll have a good chance being able to defend it if you get someone on board who understands the ADRs and can demonstrate why the policeman is using the wrong weapon.

Having said all that, you'll probably find that most regulators won't have a problem with HID being retrofitted into high beam, whether into a halogen lamp assembly (housing) or one designed for HID, but they'll get nervous when doing it to low beam. 

 Other problems can be the delay as the HID warms up on the cheaper retrofit systems.  Dipping from high beam to low beam can plunge you into darkness for a couple of seconds. Travelling at 100km/h that's a distance of around 60 metres in darkness. That's the dark space Skippy loves.

The thing to also keep in mind is the Australian Road Rule that makes it an offence to dazzle another driver (ie flicking your lights to high beam to piss off another driver / rider is an offence that can cost you coin in coirt)

This is also something to consider if yoi're a rider that always rides on high beam in order to be seen.

Confused? confused So are half the regulators out there and they don't always let the facts get in their way.
Sorry for the length of the post, but as I said, it's a messy issue not well understood by many in regulation land.
Bill.

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Post  BanditDave Tue 10 Mar 2015, 6:59 am

I fitted HID's to my 09 Bandit just replacing the regular filament globes with the HID's.

I used 35watt 6000K units which in my opinion had just a trace of blue in the beam.

The beam pattern was a little "yucky" with the original reflector but good enough for the purpose.

I adjusted the beam angle down a bit and in the 3 years they were fitted I never had anyone "flash" me and never got noticed by the constabulary. I think the blue trace is what gets you noticed.

At the same time I fitted 35watt 4300K HID's to the wife's Honda Shadow. They outshone the existing lights and I regard the 4300K a far better choice than the 6000K units as the light had no blue trace whatsoever.

The new Honda CBR650 has a much netter headlight than the Bandit so I probably wont bother changing them and if I feel the need will probably use internal LED or external LED driving lights.

BTW When I traded the Bandit the dealer gave it a thorough mechanical check and made no comment about the headlight.

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Post  madmax Tue 10 Mar 2015, 7:45 am

Thanks for the info Bill and Dave. I think I understand just a little bit more.

As this is the first time in 3 years I've had an issue with them being fitted I think for the time being I'll leave them.
I've also been pulled over for beathos and licence checks in the past and not had it questioned. Sat behind cops in traffic and they've done nothing.
Neither has anyone flashed me.
I certain the only thing that attracted the attention of this particular cop is the extra white light

Seriously does that look too bright
Warning about HIDs 10402954_10205736381599269_5061391108259117324_n
Photo by Jim Coleman esq


Last edited by madmax on Fri 20 Mar 2015, 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  BanditDave Tue 10 Mar 2015, 5:48 pm

Howdy MM,

If you don't do a lot of night riding might I suggest you adjust the beam angle down a few degrees.

If you want to get really extravagant consider purchasing a replacement HID bulb of the same wattage but with a 4300K colour temperature. This should eliminate the blue tinge and should not be so noticeable to Mister Plod. I see them on EBay for $15/pair. If you have trouble locating them try www.banggood.com
I got away with it for over 3 years and like yourself got stopped at several breathos and two radar incidents.

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Post  madmax Tue 10 Mar 2015, 6:19 pm

I was looking on ebay yesterday for the very thing.

35w 4300k
as you say $15 upwards, just haven't made up my mind yet.

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Post  Chook Wed 11 Mar 2015, 1:21 pm

madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all
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Post  madmax Wed 11 Mar 2015, 2:57 pm

Chook wrote:madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all

Maybe I'll dip it down a bit for the time being

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Post  Kiwisteve Wed 11 Mar 2015, 6:45 pm

madmax wrote:
Chook wrote:madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all

Maybe I'll dip it down a bit for the time being

I must admit, I wondered who had the blue light, but it didn't dazzle me as you were a fair way behind me when we were going down to Forbes. (i.e. a few other bikes between us).
Not surprising tho, as my bike is a fast RED Bandit Razz

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Post  paul Wed 11 Mar 2015, 6:50 pm

Kiwisteve wrote:
madmax wrote:
Chook wrote:madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all

Maybe I'll dip it down a bit for the time being

I must admit, I wondered who had the blue light, but it didn't dazzle me as you were a fair way behind me when we were going down to Forbes. (i.e. a few other bikes between us).
Not surprising tho, as my bike is a fast RED Bandit Razz
You do know how much shit you're going to cop if your next one isn't red , don't you  Razz Laughing

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Post  madmax Wed 11 Mar 2015, 6:53 pm

Kiwisteve wrote:
madmax wrote:
Chook wrote:madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all

Maybe I'll dip it down a bit for the time being

I must admit, I wondered who had the blue light, but it didn't dazzle me as you were a fair way behind me when we were going down to Forbes. (i.e. a few other bikes between us).
Not surprising tho, as my bike is a fast RED Bandit Razz

Funnily though my light doesn't have much blue tinge, it is however very white

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Post  Chook Wed 11 Mar 2015, 7:20 pm

madmax wrote:
Kiwisteve wrote:
madmax wrote:
Chook wrote:madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all

Maybe I'll dip it down a bit for the time being

I must admit, I wondered who had the blue light, but it didn't dazzle me as you were a fair way behind me when we were going down to Forbes. (i.e. a few other bikes between us).
Not surprising tho, as my bike is a fast RED Bandit Razz

Funnily though my light doesn't have much blue tinge, it is however very white
Your light looks very blue in the rear view mirror mm
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Post  Kiwisteve Wed 11 Mar 2015, 8:40 pm

paul wrote:
Kiwisteve wrote:
madmax wrote:
Chook wrote:madmax, when you were following me between Hay and West Wyalong I can remember commenting to Kaylah how bright you light is, she turned around for a look and agreed, that photo doesn't do it justice at all

Maybe I'll dip it down a bit for the time being

I must admit, I wondered who had the blue light, but it didn't dazzle me as you were a fair way behind me when we were going down to Forbes. (i.e. a few other bikes between us).
Not surprising tho, as my bike is a fast RED Bandit Razz
You do know how much shit you're going to cop if your next one isn't red , don't you  Razz Laughing

Oh CRAP! Embarassed

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Post  Jimcoleman Wed 11 Mar 2015, 9:08 pm

madmax wrote:Thanks for the info Bill and Dave. I think I understand just a little bit more.

As this is the first time in 3 years I've had an issue with them being fitted I think for the time being I'll leave them.
I've also been pulled over for beathos and licence checks in the past and not had it questioned. Sat behind cops in traffic and they've done nothing.
Neither has anyone flashed me.
I certain the only thing that attracted the attention of this particular cop is the extra white light

Seriously does that look too bright
Warning about HIDs 10402954_10205736381599269_5061391108259117324_n
whats more of a concern is the illegal use of my photo Wink

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Post  Corsa79 Fri 13 Mar 2015, 9:29 pm

Hi I have put a 50watt hid kit both high and low beam for when I was out in Julia Creek but have had no problem now im in Beaudesert. I have done a few good rides since I been down here and had no problems with anyone flashing me. I shopped for my conversion by bulb type and found no difference in the beam pattern just that it reached a lot further. I recently sat behind a cop car for around 15 to 20km gheading south into Gympie. Been past fair few police on the road and they didn't even look at me. I think you just got a nasty one. Best thing is I find cars actually see me to Smile
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Post  MattyC Fri 20 Mar 2015, 4:51 pm

With the HID I found that the "bulb" did not sit in the same position as the halogen unit. With that the focus on the reflector was poor giving a scattered affect.
 In my opinion the best way to go HID is fitting a HID projector unit/s into a OME housing, pita to do and $ Sad
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Post  madmax Fri 20 Mar 2015, 5:20 pm

Jimcoleman wrote:
madmax wrote:Thanks for the info Bill and Dave. I think I understand just a little bit more.

As this is the first time in 3 years I've had an issue with them being fitted I think for the time being I'll leave them.
I've also been pulled over for beathos and licence checks in the past and not had it questioned. Sat behind cops in traffic and they've done nothing.
Neither has anyone flashed me.
I certain the only thing that attracted the attention of this particular cop is the extra white light

Seriously does that look too bright
Warning about HIDs 10402954_10205736381599269_5061391108259117324_n
whats more of a concern is the illegal use of my photo Wink

Lol, i'm more concerned about the illegal use of me being in the photo Smile

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Post  Kiwisteve Fri 20 Mar 2015, 7:13 pm

madmax wrote:
Jimcoleman wrote:
madmax wrote:Thanks for the info Bill and Dave. I think I understand just a little bit more.

As this is the first time in 3 years I've had an issue with them being fitted I think for the time being I'll leave them.
I've also been pulled over for beathos and licence checks in the past and not had it questioned. Sat behind cops in traffic and they've done nothing.
Neither has anyone flashed me.
I certain the only thing that attracted the attention of this particular cop is the extra white light

Seriously does that look too bright
Warning about HIDs 10402954_10205736381599269_5061391108259117324_n
whats more of a concern is the illegal use of my photo Wink

Lol,  i'm more concerned about the illegal use of me being in the photo Smile

To be honest, I don't think it's you MM. I'm sure you wouldn't be seen to be riding a motorcycle at overly adventurous speeds. Razz
I've met you a number of times now, & you strike me as being a bloke that would never put a foot out of the law (as it were) whilst out & about on your bike. Rolling Eyes lol!

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Post  Corsa79 Fri 20 Mar 2015, 11:25 pm

OK well here is some pictures on a remote road to show my lights after hid upgrade and you can make up your own mind but I cant see anything wrong with them.Warning about HIDs Wp_20110

and looking at bike. I also swapped width lights for led
Warning about HIDs Wp_20111
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Post  madmax Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:55 am

Yeah I can't see anything wrong with them either.

Its just this police state I live in


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