Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

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Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:57 am

OK, been doing some research, and talking to a few that build systems for bikes:

That is someone that builds them for race or street, with a high credibility.

At one point, I found a set of new Akrapovic, from UK, and wanted, plus post, headers only, $1100!!!!!

Can`t get any other QUALITY brands anymore for the 1200`s....obsolete,  and I refuse to use ebay specials..Delkevic and the likes of.  I want something that actually works, not for the sake of saving a couple of KG`s.

So I think I`ve found the man for the job, for some custom headers, to suit my engine.

Will be $650-$700 out of stainless.

Will be a 4-2-1 system. He basically laughed at 4-1, as my research has lead me to anyway.

All my readings, is leading me to understand 4-1 is great for a drag bike, when you`ve got the throttle wide open, and dump the clutch, and your at peak revs. They don`t produce torque.

A 4-2-1 system produces torque, and from my dealings with guru`s,  long primaries is the key to torque, and having, numbers 1-3 linked, and 2-4 linked, then collect into one. There is so many opinions on this subject, it hurts my head, but dynos pulls, has lead me to the said set up.

I have to give him my cam intake duration, to work out the primary lengths.

So for the money, I think its quiet cheap, considering, if you were to buy an off the shelf quality set, that really isn`t properly tuned anyway.

Wont happen straight away, but with in 4 months.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:25 am

That price seems pretty good.

I heard (on here I think it was) that Dale Walker will ship his headers (US$539 plus shipping) from the US un-welded to aid in transportation cost, but I think they would still work out closer to that Akrapovic price once shipping and welding was completed. Plus his 1200's are the 4-1 which you have ruled out anyway, he claims 4-6 hp on a B12 btw.

Will be interesting to see the results, do you have a "before" dyno number already to compare the end result to ?

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  paul on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:58 am

Sounds like you're on a winner  Very Happy

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  Ewok1958 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:50 pm

Maybe a dumb question, and I'm not having a go, but what is wrong with the standard headers if you kill the cat and open up the flanges (as someone posted elsewhere)?
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  reddog on Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:14 pm

Arrow 1250 headers are 4 2 1s too
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:19 pm

@Ewok1958 wrote:Maybe a dumb question, and I'm not having a go, but what is wrong with the standard headers if you kill the cat and open up the flanges (as someone posted elsewhere)?

my 2003 1200, doesn`t have a cat, and the standard headers are 4-1, with a 35.5mm  I.D pipe, which is restrictive.

Basically, after talking to the ones in the know, you go for 38mm I.D.

I have a set of Hindle headers, which I haven`t put on yet, and they are a 4-2-1,  but they are a 1-2, and 3-4 set up.

I will put them on my GEN 1, and do the custom jobbie on my GEN 2, with my slightly altered rebuilt engine.

No Barry, there won`t be a before and after dyno, due to I only want to pay for it once. But the seat of pants thing will tell me all I need to know, and as for numbers, well I`m still not a believer of dynos to give a fictitious number.
 The only numbers that will be relevant to me, will be a 1/4 mile time.

I`m not into drag racing, but this will be my measuring stick, not a dyno.

I know in current form, it should be good for high 10`s easily, with factory headers, and no airbox mods.

How do I know this, well when it was completely stock from the factory, it died at 9200 rpm, and did an 11.4, @ 117.8 mph, and now with the new engine, if I hit it in first, it lights up the rear wheel, and pulls crisp and sharp to 11 000rpm. No way in the world, would it do that before.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  Jimcoleman on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:52 pm

Welcome to my world of 5000ks to a set of tyres  Sad
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:42 am

@mtbeerwah wrote: No Barry, there won`t be a before and after dyno, due to I only want to pay for it once. But the seat of pants thing will tell me all I need to know, and as for numbers, well I`m still not a believer of dynos to give a fictitious number.

I too don't really place that much faith in comparing dyno readouts from different dyno machines, but if it was done on the same machine by the same operator, then there is a good chance the figures are a true representive of the percentage change, but maybe not of actually hp, eg mine was done on a car dyno with the sidecar wheel jacked up in the air so who knows how accurate that was.

But seat of the pants is also a good indicator, at least you have instant grin factor without having to look at a printout....  Laughing

Keep us informed on how it goes, sounds promising.

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:36 am

I do agree with you there Barry on percentages on the same machine.

Problem is, I live in Gladstone, the pipe bloke lives south in Brisbane, 660k`s away, and the dyno bloke I`m going to use, is in Harvey bay on the way home again, half way between Gladstone and Briz.

Gladstone has no guru`s, or equipment to aid in my needs.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:26 am

I've got an old G-Tech arround here somewhere, it allowed dashboard readings of HP and 1/4 mile times with it's built-in accelerometer, again accuracy might be suspect but for comparison it was okay to see if a change helped or hindered.  It was only plugged into the cigarette lighter, you gave it vehicle weight but there was no connection to the motor or coil or anything else.



Come forward a decade or so we now have diagnostic kit we can plug into the OBD ports.  I know the OBD port on our bikes isn't properly compataible like all the cars now made in the world (listening Mr Suzuki ?), but a number of the ELM327 devices and apps like Torque Pro can now give power readings.




I wonder if it would work on the Bandit, I think all the device would need would be DC power as the internal accelerometer of the ELM is doing the physics and the info in the app is doing the calculations ????

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:44 am

god damn you got some gear Barry!

you`ve always got something lying away in the back of your shed.

Interesting bit of kit you got there,

Sounds like it should work.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  reddog on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:13 am

I've got an elm327, works on the wife's vw and my dmax. Torque works great on my android phone
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:40 am

The OBD2 diagnostic port is manditory on all cars world wide, however seems there was a loop hole for bikes.  So virtually any ELM327 should work on any car, however some apps/software can give more or better laid out information.

I can't find anything specifically for the Bandit, but there seems to be a bit of info on the GSR and GSX.

I'm just chasing up some info on whether we can connect the K-Line diagnostic port (the white connector we short out pins on to get to "Dealer Mode" and the "Cxxx" error readings on the dash) to connect to the ELM327 module, the clip and info below looks promising...........





And yes I know there are other tools that work, however my Bluetooth ELM327 cost me $40 and the Torque app was free, you can't match those prices with the Suzuki SDS or a Healtech Scantool.

BTW, just so it doesn't look like I'm hi-jacking the thread too much, this discussion came about on whether these cheap ELM327 tools could be used as an on board dyno for getting comparison readings when doing changes to our bikes.

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:46 pm

I`m certainly not taking it as a hi-jack, its all valid info to me.

the only prob for me is, I`m still living in the past, and still using carrier pigeons instead of a phone, and REALLY struggle with tech info

 If my brain could process it all, life would be a whole lot rosier.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  Reardo on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Sorry I can't link anything, The tools for posting are not working.

What about Bandit 1200 Hindle Race System

Photo:
http://www.justbandits.com/shop/popuplargeimage.asp?strImage=394.jpg&strImageType=product&strPageTitle=Hindle%20Race%20System

Youtube Clips:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bandit+1200+Hindle+Race+System+

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*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:35 pm

@Reardo wrote:Sorry I can't link anything, The tools for posting are not working.

What about Bandit 1200 Hindle Race System

Photo:


Youtube Clips:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bandit+1200+Hindle+Race+System+


Probably why you couldn't get it to work (and neither could I get a direct link) was due to the way they showed the larger picture on their site, the photo hosting software doesn't like the link.  And on your link above somehow the "%20"'s into real "spaces" and so it didn't work either, but there is always another way to skin a cat....

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:49 pm

yeah, I`ve stated that I have these!, and they are 1-2 and 3-4, not 1-3 and 2-4 that I want, and aren`t tuned to my cams, as I`m running GIXX cams, so this is why I`m going custom.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  Reardo on Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:55 pm

Embarassed I don't know how I mist That.

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*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:15 am

@Reardo wrote:Embarassed I don't know how I mist That.

Ha Ha...all good mate. I usually forget what I write!
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:17 am

@mtbeerwah wrote:yeah, I`ve stated that I have these!, and they are 1-2 and 3-4, not 1-3 and 2-4 that I want, and aren`t tuned to my cams, as I`m running GIXX cams, so this is why I`m going custom.

Just change the sparkplug leads around .....  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:37 am

@barry_mcki wrote:
@mtbeerwah wrote:yeah, I`ve stated that I have these!, and they are 1-2 and 3-4, not 1-3 and 2-4 that I want, and aren`t tuned to my cams, as I`m running GIXX cams, so this is why I`m going custom.

Just change the sparkplug leads around .....  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
huh....you first Cool
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:42 am

Remember awhile back looking at a mates newly rebuilt V8, wouldn't start, he had the firing order right, just the rotation wrong....  Embarassed 

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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  Reardo on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:47 pm

If you have a set of these. Take them to a exhaust shop for a quote for them to swap collector (1-2) to (2-3) and make a new one for (1-4).
I helped a mate drop his bike off years ago to have something similar done at a exhaust shop for a couple hundred.



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2007 Bandit 1250sa Silver
*Open airbox lid with K&N.
*Removed Secondaries.
*HealTech Gear Indicator w/tre "Advanced Timing Retard Eliminator is needed".
*Balanced TB's. My TPS was fine, but you should check yours.
*Arrow race headers with Yoshimura TRS.
*PC3 with the supplied map and these mod got 123hp with 115nm of torque.
*Neville Lush Racing custom tune = 130hp with 125nm at the Tyre (Standard 98hp/108nm).
My youtube channel (clickhere)
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  mtbeerwah on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:15 pm

@Reardo wrote:If you have a set of these. Take them to a exhaust shop for a quote for them to swap collector (1-2) to (2-3) and make a new one for (1-4).
I helped a mate drop his bike off years ago to have something similar done at a exhaust shop for a couple hundred.



I have contemplated that, but will stick these on my Gen1.

Thanks for the idea anyway.
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Re: Custom Headers!!!!!!!!!

Post  barry_mcki on Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:36 am

Well finally got round to making the SDS to OBD adaptor to test my theory on hooking up to the diagnostic port on the 1250.  

Unfortunately I couldn't get the adaptor to register as an OBD device, which tells me either the K-Line info stream (the K-Line protocol is suppose to be one of the ones recognised in the OBD standard -  i.e ISO 14234-4) is not correct or there are other pins that need to see info/data levels to trick the adaptor into thinking its looking at a correct OBD port.

I tried connecting the K-Line pin 7 and then 15, neither would light the OBD light on the adaptor, it doesn't display the same lights as when it is plugged into the car, so there might be some pin that needs to be connected to some other potential.  I'll tried to decipher some note from others that suscessfuly hooked up via the Suzuki SDS tool and this type of connection.  

At this stage it's not looking too good.

OBD Pinout


OBD to SDS Cable


OBD to SDS Cable - pinout


1250 Diagnostic port

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