help hid issues

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

help hid issues

Post  pauld on Sat 21 Jan 2012, 8:37 pm

Hi everyone iv just spent all day playing with the low bean of my bike and have had the following happen,

1st I would get the light to turn on with the key on the turn the switch to high beam and it would turn off. The old halogen globe used to stay on.

So I thought my ballast was not getting enough power and going into protection so wired in a relay to beef up the voltage and with a little success it would turn high beam on and the low beam would stay on.

But then it would turn off as soon as I start the bike, I have two ballasts and getting the same results with both any ideas?

Oh it is a gsx650f but they are basically 1250fa missing 600cc

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  2wheelsagain on Sat 21 Jan 2012, 8:41 pm

Mate I'm electricly challenged.
Can you revert to the original system or check relays?

_________________
My posts reflect my personal  experience or opinion. You don't have to agree with me.
~ Chris ~
~ 0466 Ask ~
~ My Photography Blog Page ~
~ My YouTube Channel ~
~ Suzuki Bandits Australia Facebook Page ~
~ Half hr from the hills. Two minutes from the coast ~

~ My Bikes ~
Graphite 2014 VFR1200F - How Fast Do You Want To Tour?
Silver 2014 MV Agusta B3 Brutale 800 - Triple Treat
avatar
2wheelsagain
Admin

Posts : 6204
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 53
Location : Sale Area Vic

View user profile https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU-axKVr_wDILSSK0-8GQ1A

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Sat 21 Jan 2012, 8:42 pm

Yeah plugged the old globe in and it all works fine hence the reason I'm stumped

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  reddog on Sat 21 Jan 2012, 9:41 pm

I'd say one of the ballasts is fubar... but I'm no auto sparky
avatar
reddog

Posts : 2379
Join date : 2010-09-27
Age : 39
Location : Allanson WA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  barry_mcki on Sat 21 Jan 2012, 10:07 pm

Hi Paul,

As you probably know, the batteries in bikes are relatively small, in most cases the light circuits are switched off during startup so max power is availabe to the starter and the ignition system. I am not completely sure how close the 650 is to the Bandit, but I'm pretty sure this would be the case.

Depending how you have picked up your trigger for the HID and now the coil for the relay (assume you have the main contacts for the relay going back to the battery), you will still have the 12v shut off completely when starting the bike, but it will be there for both "key on" and bike running.

It is possible your HID kit doesn't like the on/off/on sequence as you start the bike, the relay will still go through this same sequence (but you are getting less voltage drop due to the direct battery connection and not going through the ignition and OEM lighting relays).

Try removing the fuse from your new relay (you did put a fuse in didn't you ?) before starting the bike, then replace the relay fuse once going. See if the low and hi beam work okay as the engine is running - you should be able to go from lo to hi and back again without any issues.

If you still have problems then you may have suspect bulbs/ignitors/ballast.

If it all works then the issue will be the voltage drop to the HIDs as you are starting, you could:
(1) add another switch to turn the lights on after starting, but you will need to remember to always turn this off (real pain to do this every time),
(2) add a delay circuit (little bit complicated but it is what I did), or
(3) trigger the lo HID's from the parkers (might give you starting trouble if your battery/ignition system is not in top notch condition as there is addition current draw with both lights and starter on at the same time)

Not sure if any of this is what your problems are, and appologise in advance if I am telling you how to suck eggs.

Also, if it helps, here is a link to how I wired mine. Looks messy on paper (and not that far from the truth in reality) as there are additional lights and bling pieces running, but the basic HID system is in there.

Good luck.


Last edited by barry_mcki on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Hacks - more smiles per mile  



Red 2007 GSF-1250S with SRK Premier Sidecar
avatar
barry_mcki

Posts : 1619
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 60
Location : Hillwood, Tasmania

View user profile http://g.co/maps/vb84k

Back to top Go down

Diagnose on bench first

Post  BanditDave on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 8:23 am

Hi Paul,

I suggest you set up the HID lights on the workbench first and confirm all is well before trying the same on your bike.

My wiring diagram is under General 6Jan2011 hid-lights-who-has-them ............

http://nswbandits.forumotion.net/t2004p15-hid-lights-who-here-has-them-and-what-do-you-recommend#24430

This will very quickly isolate the problem as either the new lights or some strange wiring issue on the bike.

Good Luck

_________________
BanditDave
Hervey Bay, Queensland

2015 Suzuki DL650A
2014 Honda CBR650F

2009 Bandit 1250
2006 Bandit 1200
Suzuki VZ800 Marauder
avatar
BanditDave

Posts : 699
Join date : 2011-07-24
Age : 66
Location : Hervey Bay, Queensland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  gringo on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 9:05 am

Whoa! Back up... I need a relay and a fuse installed now?

Can someone explain what the fuse and relay are for, and how do I install them?
avatar
gringo

Posts : 92
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Fuse and relay a wise investment

Post  BanditDave on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 9:42 am

@gringo wrote:Whoa! Back up... I need a relay and a fuse installed now?

Can someone explain what the fuse and relay are for, and how do I install them?

The lights will operate without the fuse and relay but adding these (fuse and relay) will supply the HID with full battery volts and also reduce current draw through switches and wiring.

Before I fitted the HID lights I measured the battery volts at 12.6 volts and the original headlight bulb at 10.8 volts. This indicates a significant voltage drop between the battery and the headlight which explains the abysmal headlight performance.

The fuse and relay eliminates this situation by connecting the battery directly to the headlight (HID) without any significant voltage drop.

BTW the addition of the fuse and relay would have made the original headlight "acceptable" but the HID change makes it "great"

Having a peek at my wiring diagram, the only change to the original wiring is to solder (or crimp) a wire from the original headlight positive wire to the coil of the relay. I did not remove the original headlight socket but just cable-tied it behind the housing.

In the unlikely event of a HID failure you simply remove the fuse and plug in the original headlight bulb to return the bike to standard.

I've had the HID lights running for over 12 months and would recommend them to everyone. I used 35watt 6000K bulbs which are excellent. The only change I have made is to adjust the headlight angle down to avoid dazzling oncoming motorists and attracting undue attention to myself.

_________________
BanditDave
Hervey Bay, Queensland

2015 Suzuki DL650A
2014 Honda CBR650F

2009 Bandit 1250
2006 Bandit 1200
Suzuki VZ800 Marauder
avatar
BanditDave

Posts : 699
Join date : 2011-07-24
Age : 66
Location : Hervey Bay, Queensland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 12:49 pm

Ok so I checked it all out with the multimeter I have 12.3v at the input of the relay, 12.3v on the output side of the relay and it does drop to 10.5v on the initial crank but comes back to 11.2 whilst still cranking but the light still goes out so its safe to say my cheap s**t ballast is just rubbish and won't take that amount of fluctuation which if nobody else is having trouble with theirs then it must be mine

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  barry_mcki on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 1:14 pm

Do you only have the one HID set (i.e. were you only doing the lo beam) ?

If you have two sets you can swap parts between as they should be exaxctly the same, it's only location of the bulb that makes the difference, with two sets you can start swapping parts to narrow the problem.

If you only have the one try triggering it from hi beam and put lo back to factory. Assuming you only start the bike on lo beam, if you can change lo to hi and back again with no problems when the bike is running, it is looking pretty much like the voltage drop at start is going too low for your HID set to take it.

I got my sets from DMM in the US, they have a lifetime guarentee on the bulbs, not that you would go to the expense of mailing a faulty one back, it is just good to know they have enough faith in their product to offer this in the first place. Their dual set of H7's (two of everything) is US$50 plus shipping (which is not cheap, about $45 on top of the HIDs), so about $95 all up. You can probably pick up a pretty decent set locally for that much, but there have been pretty good write-ups about DMM in the other forums.

Cheers


Last edited by barry_mcki on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Hacks - more smiles per mile  



Red 2007 GSF-1250S with SRK Premier Sidecar
avatar
barry_mcki

Posts : 1619
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 60
Location : Hillwood, Tasmania

View user profile http://g.co/maps/vb84k

Back to top Go down

Start eliminating parts

Post  BanditDave on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 2:30 pm

Hi Paul,

I've got to agree with Barry on this. It is necessary to isolate the problem.

I personally favour setting up the lights on the workbench away from the bike and thus determining if the problem is light or bike related. Barry's approach is also equally valid where he suggests swapping hi/lo beam bits to isolate the problem.

One thing that has plagued man (and woman Very Happy ) from the beginning of time is bad earthing. Make absolutely certain that you are connecting the ground (-ve) wires to a battery negative not to a bolt threaded into plastic, I speak from experience Embarassed


_________________
BanditDave
Hervey Bay, Queensland

2015 Suzuki DL650A
2014 Honda CBR650F

2009 Bandit 1250
2006 Bandit 1200
Suzuki VZ800 Marauder
avatar
BanditDave

Posts : 699
Join date : 2011-07-24
Age : 66
Location : Hervey Bay, Queensland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 7:17 pm

I did use a fairing bolts as the earth for the relay but tapped back into the headlights loom for the earth its the only thing I didn't try

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  Kaupy1962 on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 7:32 pm

Silly question, I know, but the hid globe is low and high beam isn't it?
avatar
Kaupy1962

Posts : 1051
Join date : 2011-06-22
Age : 55

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 7:34 pm

I'm only doing the low beam

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  paul on Sun 22 Jan 2012, 8:05 pm

Embarassed when you said you help "hid " issues I thought you were either from New Zealand or it was a typo. lol!

_________________
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.






avatar
paul

Posts : 6973
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 64
Location : Morphett Vale Sth. Aust.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  reddog on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 1:41 pm

If he was from Nz it'd read "Hlp HD Ushoes" or something similar
avatar
reddog

Posts : 2379
Join date : 2010-09-27
Age : 39
Location : Allanson WA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 7:32 pm

Thanks for the input guys so it appears to be a very simple earthing issue I feel very silly

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  paul on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 7:58 pm

@pauld wrote:Thanks for the input guys so it appears to be a very simple earthing issue I feel very silly

if you don`t ask , you may never learn Very Happy

_________________
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.






avatar
paul

Posts : 6973
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 64
Location : Morphett Vale Sth. Aust.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  barry_mcki on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 8:03 pm

@pauld wrote:...it appears to be a very simple earthing issue

Well done in solving it Paul, earths are one of the hardest problems to find, they cause all sorts of problems as systems act in very unusal ways.

It is amazing how much power is lost through switches, OEM relay contacts, connectors and cabling. At work here the sparkies go round with a thermal gun measuring the temperature switchboard contacts, a bad circuit breaker or lose wiring contact will result in it warming up (current draw x the contact resistance = power loss in heat and voltage loss). The more powerful the end device the more heat at the bad contact, could be what is causing the Oxford heated grip control units to fail, a poor contact inside results in a heat buildup thus eventually cooking the controller.

The Eastern Beaver fuse panel I use for all accessories has not only the individual (fused) positive, but also negative terminals. Once you have wired in the E/Beaver then all other new circuits connect up to the screw terminals.

Sage advice, always fuse and always use a good bare metal earth (or wire back to the battery negative), saves hassles in the long run.

_________________
Hacks - more smiles per mile  



Red 2007 GSF-1250S with SRK Premier Sidecar
avatar
barry_mcki

Posts : 1619
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 60
Location : Hillwood, Tasmania

View user profile http://g.co/maps/vb84k

Back to top Go down

HIDlights

Post  BanditDave on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 8:19 pm

@reddog wrote:If he was from Nz it'd read "Hlp HD Ushoes" or something similar

I thought all vehicles in NZ had HIDlights Very Happy

_________________
BanditDave
Hervey Bay, Queensland

2015 Suzuki DL650A
2014 Honda CBR650F

2009 Bandit 1250
2006 Bandit 1200
Suzuki VZ800 Marauder
avatar
BanditDave

Posts : 699
Join date : 2011-07-24
Age : 66
Location : Hervey Bay, Queensland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  Re-Cycled on Mon 23 Jan 2012, 8:45 pm

@BanditDave wrote:
@reddog wrote:If he was from Nz it'd read "Hlp HD Ushoes" or something similar

I thought all vehicles in NZ had HIDlights Very Happy
lol!

_________________
Cheers Peter

'96 1200s Bandit
2007 DL1000 V Strom
avatar
Re-Cycled

Posts : 2178
Join date : 2009-08-20
Age : 58
Location : Newcastle

View user profile https://www.facebook.com/groups/154520904856/

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Wed 25 Jan 2012, 8:45 pm

Stupid headlights wired it up on the bike the same as I had it on the bench after work today and you wouldn't believe it I can't start the bike so back to the drawing board I go hoping I just missed something silly will check in the morning when I can see

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  pauld on Thu 26 Jan 2012, 4:21 pm

It works, it all works

pauld

Posts : 31
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  2wheelsagain on Thu 26 Jan 2012, 5:13 pm

@pauld wrote:It works, it all works

_________________
My posts reflect my personal  experience or opinion. You don't have to agree with me.
~ Chris ~
~ 0466 Ask ~
~ My Photography Blog Page ~
~ My YouTube Channel ~
~ Suzuki Bandits Australia Facebook Page ~
~ Half hr from the hills. Two minutes from the coast ~

~ My Bikes ~
Graphite 2014 VFR1200F - How Fast Do You Want To Tour?
Silver 2014 MV Agusta B3 Brutale 800 - Triple Treat
avatar
2wheelsagain
Admin

Posts : 6204
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 53
Location : Sale Area Vic

View user profile https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU-axKVr_wDILSSK0-8GQ1A

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  NTBill on Thu 26 Jan 2012, 7:28 pm

@pauld wrote:It works, it all works

Wot wozit Paul? study
avatar
NTBill

Posts : 320
Join date : 2011-07-25
Age : 56
Location : Darwin Rural, NT.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: help hid issues

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum